More "miscellany" (General)

by dhw, Thursday, December 02, 2021, 07:58 (49 days ago) @ David Turell

Reality: God is a mathematician

DAVID: I will always support you, as you study how information runs the universe.

dhw: Strange. I thought you thought your God ran the universe.

DAVID: The information is God's contribution.

dhw: So information changes legs into flippers, Ah well, it makes a change from your God performing an operation.

DAVID: All of God's 'operations' are by editing DNA and all of the genome ancillary programs required. Of course He uses the amazing code He created.

dhw: So why is it information that "runs the universe", and not your God using the information he has created?

DAVID: The processes that run the universe automatically use God's information.

So now it’s processes that run the universe, and not God and not information. Suits me. Theistic theory: Your God created the information that enables the process of evolution to run itself automatically. None of this business of your God individually designing every life form, lifestyle, econiche, natural wonder etc. (though he could always dabble if he wanted to). Thank you.

Monarchs use toxic milkweed
DAVID: how do required mutations happen in concurrent mutations?

dhw: Why do you and the authors assume that the mutations were concurrent? Every threat to life will either result in death (possibly extinction) or the finding of a remedy! The whole principle is illustrated by the discussion we had on the immune system. The disease or poison will go on killing until the cells come up with a counter to it. […] Now please explain to me why you think your God specially programmed or dabbled the poison and then the mutations when his only purpose was to design humans and their food. […]

DAVID: My response is illustrated in our discussion of the importance of ecosystems. The Monarchs are part of a required one as the bush of life provides for for all, a not surprisingly necessary requirement. But I forget your critical view of God who should have made humans straight away, food ignored.

dhw: Food not ignored – see the second bold. And why have you have totally ignored my bolded response to your claim and that of the author that toxins and their antidotes must have been concurrent?

DAVID: The dhw bold: "The disease or poison will go on killing until the cells come up with a counter to it." How do 'killed' cells come up with an answer??? The answer is that design produces an antidote set of DNA mutation changes.

Of course it’s not the killed cells that come up with the answer. Humans invent ways of killing bacteria by the billion but there are always survivors and sooner or later the survivors come up with an answer. Covid has killed millions of us, but millions of us have survived and (we hope) formed antibodies. Yes, I agree that design comes up with an antidote, but I do not agree that the antidote is concurrent with the disease/poison. It comes into being as cells RESPOND to the disease/poison – no matter how the cells acquired their ability to respond.

dhw: There is no point in yet again trying to defend your illogical theory of evolution. All life forms since the start of life have required food. If your God’s only purpose was to design humans AND THEIR FOOD, why did he design countless life forms and foods that had no connection with humans?

DAVID: Same totally illogical complaint from the past. Same answer. God chose to evolve humans from Archaea, as God's history shows.

Same dodge. We evolutionists believe history shows that ALL life forms and their foods evolved from bacteria, including countless numbers that had no connection with humans.

dhw: And do you really believe that without the specially designed milkweed toxin and the specially designed resistance to it, humans could never have existed and could never have had a food supply? Over the last hundred years, vast numbers of your God’s specially designed species have gone extinct[…] , and yet the human population has increased on a massive scale. Clearly even these species were not “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” and their food, since we have flourished without them.

DAVID: You are now caught up in the liberal group think worry about species disappearing and identifying 'endangered species', when we know full well 99% of all past specie are extinct. Why must some humans worry about changing the path of extinction history??? Humans are here despite all those terrible extinctions. Do you want dinos back?

I have no idea what point you are making. Mine is that humans didn’t need all the life forms and foods of the past that had no connection with them, and even in the present we can survive without large numbers of the species etc. you say your purposeful God designed to be our food. So why did he design them if we don't need them?

QUOTE: "Scientists have unearthed the oldest fossils to date of the mysterious human lineage known as the Denisovans. With these 200,000-year-old bones, researchers have also for the first time discovered stone artifacts linked to these extinct relatives of modern humans.

DAVID: each group of early humans followed the same path of development of lifestyles as God's endpoint of evolution.

So why do you think he designed them, if the only ones he wanted were sapiens?

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