More "miscellany" (General)

by dhw, Tuesday, November 30, 2021, 07:09 (51 days ago) @ David Turell

Reality: God is a mathematician
dhw: I would suggest that the world has many parts, and we can chuck in as many nouns as we like and they will all fit: I shall now, as usual, apply for a grant to investigate what part is played in the real world by matter, mathematics, information, consciousness, geography, geology, chemistry, biochemistry, physics, biology, panpsychism, the human imagination and bubblegum. I hope I can rely on your support.

DAVID: I will always support you, as you study how information runs the universe.

dhw: Strange. I thought you thought your God ran the universe. But I welcome your support.

DAVID: The information is God's contribution.

dhw: So information changes legs into flippers, Ah well, it makes a change from your God performing an operation.

DAVID: All of God's 'operations' are by editing DNA and all of the genome ancillary programs required. Of course He uses the amazing code He created.

So why is it information that “runs the universe”, and not your God using the information he has created?

Monarchs use toxic milkweed
QUOTE: "'It's remarkable that concurrent evolution occurred at the molecular level in all these animals," said UCR evolutionary biologist and study lead Simon "Niels" Groen. "Plant toxins caused evolutionary changes across at least three levels of the food chain!" (David's bold)

DAVID: how do required mutations happen in concurrent mutations (my bold)? Either the germ cells in each of the various animals 'knew' what to do in three places on the sodium-potassium pump, or the designer helped them.

dhw: Why do you and the authors assume that the mutations were concurrent? Every threat to life will either result in death (possibly extinction) or the finding of a remedy! The whole principle is illustrated by the discussion we had on the immune system. The disease or poison will go on killing until the cells come up with a counter to it. Here’s one theory: intelligent cells eventually find the right mutations to counter the toxins (i.e. toxins first, remedy found in response). Here’s another: your God may have given cells the ability to find the right mutations. Now please explain to me why you think your God specially programmed or dabbled the poison and then the mutations when his only purpose was to design humans and their food. Couldn’t he have done this without designing milkweed and the monarch and/or performing the necessary operations on a few mice, birds, wasps and worms?

DAVID: My response is illustrated in our discussion of the importance of ecosystems. The Monarchs are part of a required one as the bush of life provides for for all, a not surprisingly necessary requirement. But I forget your critical view of God who should have made humans straight away, food ignored.

Food not ignored – see the second bold. And why have you have totally ignored my bolded response to your claim and that of the author that toxins and their antidotes must have been concurrent?
There is no point in yet again trying to defend your illogical theory of evolution. All life forms since the start of life have required food. If your God’s only purpose was to design humans AND THEIR FOOD, why did he design countless life forms and foods that had no connection with humans? And do you really believe that without the specially designed milkweed toxin and the specially designed resistance to it, humans could never have existed and could never have had a food supply? Over the last hundred years, vast numbers of your God’s specially designed species have gone extinct (no use reproducing the figures, as they differ wildly), and yet the human population has increased on a massive scale. Clearly even these species were not “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humansand their food, since we have flourished without them.


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