More "miscellany" (General)

by dhw, Sunday, November 28, 2021, 12:35 (54 days ago) @ David Turell

Survival
DAVID: Yes, I have God in charge.

dhw: And you haven't a clue why he would choose your idea of his method to fulfil your idea of his purpose. But at least you believe that your God designed flippers in order to improve the pre-whale’s chances of survival in new surroundings. I think that is enough to demonstrate that survival is the purpose of the new structures that constitute speciation. Whether speciation itself has a purpose - and what that purpose might be - is another matter.

DAVID: We seem to finally agree on the role of survival.

Thank you.

How T cells are triggered
DAVID: Your insistence upon cell intelligence and your previous reference to panpsychism show you recognize mental activity is obviously present in our universe and manages the designs we see. Our only difference is how we describe the source. You see it scattered among all living matter, source unknown, while I offer a working mind.

dhw: I do not insist on cell intelligence, but I do strongly object to your attempts at belittling Shapiro and all those scientists in the field who share his opinion that cells are intelligent. Of course at some stage in eternity there has been mental activity, but we have no idea when it began or in what form. You always forget that as an agnostic I do NOT reject your theory of a working mind (God). I present the alternatives, but am unable to choose between them.

DAVID: Still on your picket fence.

That is the nature of agnosticism.

Reality: God is a mathematician
dhw: I would suggest that the world has many parts, and we can chuck in as many nouns as we like and they will all fit: I shall now, as usual, apply for a grant to investigate what part is played in the real world by matter, mathematics, information, consciousness, geography, geology, chemistry, biochemistry, physics, biology, panpsychism, the human imagination and bubblegum. I hope I can rely on your support.

DAVID: I will always support you, as you study how information runs the universe.

dhw: Strange. I thought you thought your God ran the universe. But I welcome your support.

DAVID: The information is God's contribution.

So information changes legs into flippers, Ah well, it makes a change from your God performing an operation.

Genome complexity
DAVID: sexual reproduction may bring enhanced evolution potential, but obviously creates problems such as double X's. After seeing this exquisite design, try and tell me a designing mind does not exist.

I would never tell you that. I am agnostic, not an atheist.

Monarchs use toxic milkweed

QUOTE: "'It's remarkable that concurrent evolution occurred at the molecular level in all these animals," said UCR evolutionary biologist and study lead Simon "Niels" Groen. "Plant toxins caused evolutionary changes across at least three levels of the food chain!" (David's bold)

DAVID: how do required mutations happen in concurrent mutations (my bold)? Either the germ cells in each of the various animals 'knew' what to do in three places on the sodium-potassium pump, or the designer helped them.

Why do you and the authors assume that the mutations were concurrent? Every threat to life will either result in death (possibly extinction) or the finding of a remedy! The whole principle is illustrated by the discussion we had on the immune system. The disease or poison will go on killing until the cells come up with a counter to it. Here’s one theory: intelligent cells eventually find the right mutations to counter the toxins (i.e. toxins first, remedy found in response). Here’s another: your God may have given cells the ability to find the right mutations. Now please explain to me why you think your God specially programmed or dabbled the poison and then the mutations when his only purpose was to design humans and their food. Couldn’t he have done this without designing milkweed and the monarch and/or performing the necessary operations on a few mice, birds, wasps and worms?

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My posts are going to be irregular for the time being, as my son is still in hospital following a second major operation.


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