More "miscellany" (General)

by David Turell @, Wednesday, November 24, 2021, 15:32 (3 days ago) @ dhw


dhw: Your position is your God changes legs to flippers, thereby creating a new species. The change is designed to improve chances of survival, but apparently survival is NOT the purpose. God’s purpose is to design humans and their food (you forgot the food), and so changing legs to flippers, like every act of speciation and every natural wonder, is a step on the way to designing humans and their food, although the majority had nothing to do with humans and their food. And for good measure, flippers instead of legs are part of progress towards greater complexity (you forgot that too).

Yes, I have God in charge.

Genome complexity

DAVID: And what is the source of the universe that seems to have a beginning? No wonder Einstein fought against it!! It raises your question to requiring an answer.

dhw: The answer has to be that the “beginning” (the big bang, if it happened) was not the beginning, because nothing can come of nothing. And so instead of a sourceless conscious mind, we have a sourceless mass of matter and energy forever readjusting itself.

Back to Einstein. Eternal something from ?????? nothing??? Not a solution, if one exists.

How T cells are triggered
DAVID: here is a marvelous example of how T cells act automatically to fight infections and cancer. […] The cells are not innately intelligent, but completely automatic. Cells act automatically, and following intelligent information (instructions) appear to BE intelligent, inferring they use an innate intelligence they do not have.

dhw: Your usual authoritative statement, based presumably on the belief that if you repeat the word “automatic” often enough, I will have to accept that cells act automatically, and are not – to use Shapiro’s terms – “cognitive (sentient) entities that act and interact purposefully…and possess sensory, communication, information-processing and decision-making capabilities.” 50/50 according to you, and that means 100% no!

DAVID: Shapiro, whose bacterial findings I accept fully, studied free-living bacteria, nothing beyond that in the process of evolution to more complexity. He theorized all of evolution might work that way. And you have swallowed that as probable fact since it helps you avoid God arranging for automaticity as He has done in His biological designs.

dhw: We're talking about cellular intelligence, and I’m sorry you think Shapiro would have formulated his theory without studying the work of other scientists in the field, and that you think they are as ignorant as you think he is. I haven’t swallowed the theory, but I consider it far more reasonable than your own. And yes, it helps me to avoid the illogicality of yours – ... and (theistic version) by substituting your God “arranging for” cells to possess an autonomous ability to do their own designing.

Your insistence upon cell intelligence and your previous reference to panpsychism show you recognize mental activity is obviously present in our universe and manages the designs we see. Our only difference is how we describe the source. You see it scattered among all living matter, source unknown, while I offer a working mind.

Reality: God is a mathematician
QUOTES: “Much of reality follows mathematical designs…”
"McDonnell’s view is more radical. She thinks reality is made of mathematical objects and minds. Mathematics is how the Universe, which is conscious, comes to know itself.”

dhw: Consciousness is not an object – it is a quality of minds. So why does she differentiate between mathematical objects and minds, and then say mathematics is how consciousness arises?

I don't know but I think there is a universal consciousness

QUOTE: "I defend a different view: the world has two parts, mathematics and matter. Mathematics gives matter its form, and matter gives mathematics its substance.”

dhw: And where does consciousness come in?

For me, God

DAVID: "Is God a Geometer" is a book published many years ago recognizing this approach. Our minds can see the inherent conceptual math which this article shows is a necessary part of reality. But this does not mean reality is psychic.

dhw: I would suggest that the world has many parts, and we can chuck in as many nouns as we like and they will all fit: I shall now, as usual, apply for a grant to investigate what part is played in the real world by matter, mathematics, information, consciousness, geography, geology, chemistry, biochemistry, physics, biology, panpsychism, the human imagination and bubblegum. I hope I can rely on your support.

I will always support you, as you study how information runs the universe.

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