Especially for Matt (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Friday, August 06, 2010, 14:25 (5223 days ago)

I loved the poem in this piece. AI is a pipe dream, as Penrose wrote in "The Emperor's New Mind".-
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/computational-intelligence-and-darwinism/#more-14384

Especially for Matt

by George Jelliss ⌂ @, Crewe, Friday, August 06, 2010, 20:35 (5222 days ago) @ David Turell

I enjoyed the poem too, 
but if English was written phonetically 
the computer would have it perfectly correct.
The flaw is in the language not the computer.
I suspect modern spellcheckers would also detect a few grammatical errors. 
that would suggest some words should be replaced by homophones.
The idea that computer chess programs can't or don't take account 
of positional considerations is just wrong, or way out of date.

--
GPJ

Especially for Matt

by xeno6696 @, Sonoran Desert, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 14:35 (5219 days ago) @ David Turell
edited by unknown, Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 14:51

I loved the poem in this piece. AI is a pipe dream, as Penrose wrote in "The Emperor's New Mind".
> 
> 
> http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/computational-intelligence-and-darwin... -Working in some proximity to the field, only stating that we can't do it is a pipe dream. -Kasparov stormed out of a chess match when Deep Blue did an amazingly "human" thing: It judged that its position was absolutely impervious, and instead of playing ahead assuming Kasparov saw the draw, wasted a move by just moving its king. The result: Kasparov was screaming that there was no way he was playing against a machine. The limits in the program from the blogger, are the limits built into the machine by its author. [EDIT] If Kasparov couldn't tell he was playing a machine at that point, what does it tell you about the machine? [EDIT]-Or note the post I just posted that shows a long-term research project where a machine (starting as a blank slate and only some high-level "needs") learns how to read human emotion and carry on "conversations" on an emotional level. -The key here is that the author here assumes that Artificial Intelligence programming follows even the same rules as what's done for a game: This is NOT the case. Chess starts out simply, gets chaotic in the middle, but the endgame is simpler than the beginning. (In most cases.) In the beginning and the end there just isn't as many combinations to think about. (Only 22 valid moves in the beginning, -Even in game AI--there's some imperative programming. AI programming is exactly the opposite: it's experiential in nature. The machine literally learns. You teach it its boundaries--you don't program them in place. True AI programming is alien to anyone who's written any other kind of code; that's why I won't write it off as garbage as you do.-[EDIT] As for the poem, a version of it gets passed around in college all the time. As you are aware of the Turing test, just this year AI researchers got close enough that they're starting to prepare a harder Turing test. The post about emotional intelligence above is one step towards human-use of language. The thinking of the blogger is simply not up to the current state of the field, and he's being romantic.[EDIT]

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"

Especially for Matt

by David Turell @, Monday, September 20, 2010, 23:29 (5177 days ago) @ David Turell

This blog about Fibonacci, fractals, etc., shows how simple repetative formalas fit what has developed in nature and cosmology, either naturally or by God. Goerge should also enjoy.- http://procrustes.blogtownhall.com/2010/09/20/fibonacci_life.thtml

Especially for Matt

by George Jelliss ⌂ @, Crewe, Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 10:15 (5177 days ago) @ David Turell

This site on Fibonacci Flimflam may serve as something of an antidote to the video that claims Fibonacci spirals are the "fingerprint of god"!-http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/pseudo/fibonacc.htm-"Nature has many spiral forms. None of them are golden spirals. Most don't even come close."-I notice that the title of the blog is the "Procrustean". Wasn't Procrustes the chap who stretched or squashed people to fit his bed? So presumably the blogger is aware that he is fitting these ideas to his own preconceptions.-I don't go quite as far as Simanek is dismissing Fibonacci numbers in nature as flimflam, they can certainly be observed in sunflowers and suchlike, though only as approximations. However the fitting of exponential spirals to galaxies certainly doesn't work, except superficially in the sense that all spirals resemble one another.

--
GPJ

Especially for Matt

by xeno6696 @, Sonoran Desert, Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 11:44 (5176 days ago) @ George Jelliss

George
> I notice that the title of the blog is the "Procrustean". Wasn't Procrustes the chap who stretched or squashed people to fit his bed? So presumably the blogger is aware that he is fitting these ideas to his own preconceptions.
> -Actually its pretty clear the guy isn't aware of some of the connotations of Procrustes. Apparently he murdered random people by attacking them, and cutting off or stretching arms and legs to fit in iron bed. But yeah, it's to make things fit into an arbitrary length. -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"

Especially for Matt

by xeno6696 @, Sonoran Desert, Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 11:47 (5176 days ago) @ David Turell

This blog about Fibonacci, fractals, etc., shows how simple repetative formalas fit what has developed in nature and cosmology, either naturally or by God. Goerge should also enjoy.
> 
> http://procrustes.blogtownhall.com/2010/09/20/fibonacci_life.thtml-Yeah, you might not remember but there was a large discussion about Fibonacci here sometime last year. -Fractals appear completely randomly in nature, such as when snowflakes form, or when looking at mountain ranges. The random nature is used often as a guideline for other kinds of complex-looking phenomenon that have a random origin.

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"

Especially for Matt

by Balance_Maintained @, U.S.A., Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 12:44 (5176 days ago) @ xeno6696


> Fractals appear completely randomly in nature, such as when snowflakes form, or when looking at mountain ranges. The random nature is used often as a guideline for other kinds of complex-looking phenomenon that have a random origin.-Not sure I agree with the random origin, at least as applied to the alleged Fibonacci spiral galaxies. The reason is not because of any mystic acquaintance to the number, but rather to the fact that it can be explained very simply, naturally, and in a provable manner by the Plasma universe theory. There was a series of pictures in the Setterfield research paper (links from someone else's research) that actually shows spirals such as we seen in spiral galaxies forming from plasma arcs.-I think Setterfield made a mistake in putting his creationist views out there, but, that doesn't mean I don't consider the research he has done as valid. At the very least, it deserves some serious academic attention which is more than it is getting at the moment. Most of the negatives that I have seen about it have either been ad hominem attacks, or attacks on his math using the Einsteinian Theory of Relativity instead of Lorentz's Theory of Relativity, which his research is based on.

Especially for Matt

by xeno6696 @, Sonoran Desert, Thursday, September 23, 2010, 00:53 (5175 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained


> > Fractals appear completely randomly in nature, such as when snowflakes form, or when looking at mountain ranges. The random nature is used often as a guideline for other kinds of complex-looking phenomenon that have a random origin.
> 
> Not sure I agree with the random origin, at least as applied to the alleged Fibonacci spiral galaxies. The reason is not because of any mystic acquaintance to the number, but rather to the fact that it can be explained very simply, naturally, and in a provable manner by the Plasma universe theory. There was a series of pictures in the Setterfield research paper (links from someone else's research) that actually shows spirals such as we seen in spiral galaxies forming from plasma arcs.
> -You need to do more research on snowflakes: The formation of those fractal crystals IS random; hence why "no two snowflakes look alike." In terms of mountain ranges, I direct you to Mandelbrot's book, "The Fractal Geometry of Nature." Randomized fractals perfectly replicate the topography of mountain ranges. (which makes sense since rock/mineral have varying degrees of crystallization.) -Fractals are built by taking a very very simple function, and simply repeating it ad nauseum; the result is something that looks ordered and highly complex. -> I think Setterfield made a mistake in putting his creationist views out there, but, that doesn't mean I don't consider the research he has done as valid. At the very least, it deserves some serious academic attention which is more than it is getting at the moment. Most of the negatives that I have seen about it have either been ad hominem attacks, or attacks on his math using the Einsteinian Theory of Relativity instead of Lorentz's Theory of Relativity, which his research is based on.-Fire me the link. I've been known to do hard damage to bad math.

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"

Especially for Matt

by George Jelliss ⌂ @, Crewe, Monday, September 27, 2010, 22:35 (5170 days ago) @ xeno6696

This is one of a number of videos exploring 3D Mandelbrot type structures-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO9ugnn8DbE-A Mandelbox Trip. It's just fascinating that such a structure could exist.

--
GPJ

Especially for Matt

by David Turell @, Monday, September 27, 2010, 22:49 (5170 days ago) @ George Jelliss

This is one of a number of videos exploring 3D Mandelbrot type structures
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO9ugnn8DbE
> 
> A Mandelbox Trip. It's just fascinating that such a structure could exist.-Wow!!!!!

Especially for Matt

by xeno6696 @, Sonoran Desert, Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 01:21 (5170 days ago) @ George Jelliss

This is one of a number of videos exploring 3D Mandelbrot type structures
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO9ugnn8DbE
> 
> A Mandelbox Trip. It's just fascinating that such a structure could exist.-That's the rub... if such complex structures can be created by automata following extremely simple rules....

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"

Especially for Matt

by David Turell @, Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 01:27 (5170 days ago) @ xeno6696

This is one of a number of videos exploring 3D Mandelbrot type structures
> > 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO9ugnn8DbE
> > 
> > A Mandelbox Trip. It's just fascinating that such a structure could exist.
> 
> That's the rub... if such complex structures can be created by automata following extremely simple rules....-Dendrology of plants follow those rules. Geology seems to follow.....

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