More "miscellany" (General)

by dhw, Thursday, October 21, 2021, 14:54 (44 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I'll stick to my approach that humans were God's goal over a long period of time after starting with the Big Bang and evolving everything including us.[…]. So you judge God wrong in what He decided to do. […]

dhw: You believe he designed every life form, including us and including countless life forms that had no connection with us. I do not judge God wrong in what he decided to do. I judge your theory of his goal and method of achieving it to be totally illogical.

DAVID: I cannot follow your reasoning, never have.

If you are all-powerful and have only one purpose right from the start, why would you devote your time to matters that have no connection with your purpose? I therefore suggest that your theory is unreasonable. And since you yourself cannot explain why he would act in this way, I’d have thought you’d be able to understand my reasoning.

Cosmologic philosophy: dhw said once universe too big
dhw: The vast universe is just that – a vast universe, and no human can explain it, whether theist or atheist.

DAVID: […] why did God bother with the whole evolutionary process of a giant bush if all He wanted was to start off some living humans with big brains? Forget the need for constant food supply.

dhw: Food supply is needed for ALL life forms, including those not connected with humans. I thought we’d agreed to drop this silly argument of yours.

DAVID: What we are able to eat is produced by balanced ecosystems in all branches of the bush of life.

dhw: But [we do not depend on] all the branches of life that ever existed! See “giraffe plumbing” for your own demolition of this silly attempt to gloss over 3.X billion years of evolution.

DAVID: Same weird discontinuity in your view of evolution. Everyone ate all during all of evolution.

Absolutely true. But that does not mean your God specially designed every extinct form of life and food – including all those that had no connection with humans and their food - throughout 3.X billion years for the sole purpose of designing humans and their food! Stop dodging!

DAVID: When [dhw] discusses a purposeful God, it is a God filled with human purposes which he clearly describes in free-for-alls, experimenting, changing His mind along the say, enjoying a spectacle. This is not God as we religious see Him.

dhw: See “Giraffe” and “Theodicy” on your various unreasonable views of God. And have you not noticed that you “religious” come up with a vast variety of views of your God, including those who see him as encouraging them to kill anyone who doesn’t share their views of him? And do you yourself believe your God had a son who died an agonizing death which, in some incomprehensible way, is meant to “redeem” us all. (See “Religion” in the Brief Guide for more examples of religious views.) In any case your dislike of my alternative explanations is no defence of your illogical one.

DAVID: Misuse of religion is evil, born of human free-will. Some religions have strange story inventions from human free-will minds inventing support for religious belief. I accept only the religious concept of an all powerful all knowing designer as shown by His works.

You have dismissed my theistic explanations of evolution by saying (bolded) “This is not how we religious see him” – as if somehow all believers saw him the same way. You are not “we religious”. You are “you religious”, and your personal religion does not give you the right to dismiss my different proposals regarding God’s nature because they do not coincide with what you believe.

dhw: My argument concerning the vastness of the universe was that I could not understand why your God would create untold billions of coming-and-going stars, planets and solar systems (plus countless coming-and-going life forms and foods that had no connection with humans and their foods) if his one and only purpose was to design humans and their foods. You have no idea either, so I don’t know why you are so desperate to find a quote.

DAVID: Thank you!!! Your same illogical totally discontinuous thinking. It is a false challenge to God and His works. Because as a human you don't see the point of a giant universe doesn't mean it is wrong of God to create it.

My not understanding your theory – which you do not understand either – is a criticism of your theory, not of your God! It is your own thinking that is illogical and totally discontinuous.

DAVID: I view it as an amazing creation and required to produce in the factory of exploding stars all the necessary an important elements to provide for life. History tells us God evolves everything from more simple starts, It is His history I analyze. Try it from His viewpoint.

And you cannot find a single reason why he would create an infinite number of exploding stars and a vast number of life forms in order to produce one solar system and one species (plus its food). Please stop pretending that an attack on your illogical theory is an attack on your God (if he exists).

This will be my last post until next Monday. Important family matters….

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