God and Evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Monday, February 04, 2019, 15:38 (2117 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: So please stop arguing that an immediate driving force is not a driving force, and that humans (like every other multicellular organism) were not “necessary”, and that means humans were your God’s one and only purpose.

I have my view; you have yours.

dhw: 3) Once again I am not questioning your God, I am questioning your interpretation of his purpose and method.

DAVID: I know your questioning ignores just accepting history and instead trying on totally human versions of God. You don't want to accept humans as His prime purpose . I view it as His singular purpose.

dhw: Yet again: history is the existence of all life forms past and present, which I accept. Causes and purposes are speculation, and my questioning concerns the rationality of your guesses. Prime = there are others. Singular = only one. One moment your God is in full control and his singular purpose is to produce us, so why spend 3.5+ billion years specially designing so many other life forms, styles, wonders? The next minute you say that maybe he has limits: fine, that = he is not in full control, or maybe his singular purpose wasn’t us, and/or maybe he didn’t specially design all the other forms.

You have twisted all my logic again. I have clearly stated God may be unlimited or limited. History allows both possibilities since He chose to use evolution over 3.8 billion years Humans as the purpose fits either scenario.

dhw: Those are not “human versions of your God” – they are challenges to your reasoning, and the different, logical theistic hypotheses I have offered you are no more “human” than your God “choosing” to do it your way, even though you don’t understand why. But see below for the “human” follow up.

Stated like a true non-believer. I accept history as representing how God did it.

dhw; […] if you are sure he watches everything he created, like an artist enjoying his own paintings, then it is possible that he created everything - not just humans - for his own enjoyment (your word, not mine), and that general freedom would enhance the interest.

DAVID: You constantly want God to be human in His reasons for creating and to make things for His enjoyment. Nothing on Earth knows about God but us. From that fact it is easy to reason that He might have wanted that relationship, but note, He is hidden, so it requires a special kind of relationship in which we must come to realize He has to exist. That is what theology is all about. You have not come to that realization.

dhw: I don’t “want” God to be human. You keep harping on about purpose, and how can you possibly speculate on purpose without using human terms? Maybe you are right that he wants us to realize that he exists, wants a relationship with us, wants us to admire his work (another of your ideas), and also enjoys his other creations (one of my ideas, which you are certain is correct). Nothing wrong with such “human” possibilities, so why pooh-pooh your own speculations as if they weren’t as “human” as mine? And yes, he is hidden, so we CAN only speculate. That is what theology is all about, but you have not come to that realization.

Of course we can only think of God in our human ways. There is no need for your final comment. I fully understand the strengths and weaknesses of theology. Even they over-humanize God.