Defining sentient cells: Cell receptors (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, April 07, 2018, 12:37 (2422 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I find it amazing that we can see how God has used 3-D shape to insert information into the conduct of the molecules of life. But it shows us how bacterial behavior can be totally controlled by the informakion transmitted by their molecules and genome.
dhw: No it doesn’t. It shows us how behaviour of all organisms is conducted through information conveyed by molecules. It doesn’t show us how organisms take the decisions that lead to the behaviour. This applies as much to humans as to bacteria.
DAVID: If all the decisions are planned using automatic molecular actions, all the decisions are automatic at the cellular level. […] A kidney cell only does what a kidney cell knows to do, balance the liquids and salts in the body.

Of course if all decisions are preprogrammed, every decision is automatic. And if they’re not preprogrammed, then they are not automatic! A kidney cell is part of a huge community of cells, linked to other huge communities. I am not saying every individual cell is intelligent. I am suggesting that unicellular organisms and cell communities are intelligent. Once something has been invented, it may well function automatically. Intelligence is only required for the invention itself, for modifications, and for the solution of new problems. That is how we can test the intelligence of organisms we can’t communicate with.
(Your comments on IQs and NDEs are dealt with on the "big brain" thread)

DAVID: The organism acting intelligently looks intelligent, but can appear that way by running on intelligent implanted information, a point you cannot deny.
dhw: Yes, we could all be robots. But since you agree with me, and presumably accept the criteria I propose for gauging intelligence, you cannot deny the possibility that bacteria are intelligent.
DAVID: In my view bacteria are robots.

I am aware of your view. In some people’s view, you may be a robot. I don’t think you are, but how can I know you're not?

DAVID (under “bacterial memory”): Newly discovered in bacterial biofilms:
https://phys.org/news/2018-04-bacteria-memory-descendants.html

QUOTE: "Led by scientists at UCLA, an international team of researchers has discovered that bacteria have a "memory" that passes sensory knowledge from one generation of cells to the next, all without a central nervous system or any neurons.”
"'Bacteria sense and remember via this rhythmic pattern, which is pivotal for their decision to suppress motility, become stationary and ultimately attach to a surface irreversibly and form a biofilm," Wong said."

DAVID’s comment: the way this works is not known as yet, but my guess is newly developed epigenetic changes in the genome change the information available, so the bacteria know how to repeat the past. It is just as logical adaptation. We see builtin bacterial adaptation all the time, which is why they never disappear.

Bacteria have memories, take decisions, communicate, cooperate. Let’s just be clear about your insistence on their automaticity. It means that every single bacterial adaptation throughout the history of life was either preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago, or is the result of your God dabbling. The theistic alternative is that he gave them the means to make their own decisions. Which of these alternatives sounds more likely?