Goldylocks zone planet: very few must exist (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, March 11, 2017, 12:23 (2814 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Solar systems came and went until the right one appeared.
dhw: And there you have the nub of this particular matter. Are you, then, saying that your God experimented with billions of wrong solar systems until he was able to create the right one?
DAVID: God worked with an evolving universe. Look at the whole picture, not bits and pieces.
dhw: According to you, God made the universe to evolve so that it would produce humans. But you only look at bits and pieces in the form of those factors which we know gave rise to life and eventually to humans. So once again: please look at the whole picture and tell me why you think a solar system that died billions of years ago, billions of light years away from our own, might have been vital for the production of human beings.
DAVID: You are totally missing my big picture. I have presented the idea that God uses evolutionary processes. Evolutions progress under rules of development as the universe did and still does.

For those who believe in God and evolution, of course God uses evolutionary processes which develop! The dispute between us is to what extent he planned the whole course of evolution (every solar system, every organism), to what extent his powers are limited, and to what extent he deliberately allows the evolutionary processes to go their own way.

DAVID: God did not look at 'experimental solar systems'.

Another of your authoritative statements. How do you know?

DAVID: Our system is extremely rare as shown by its fine tuning: […] God either stepped in and guided Earth's development or it developed under His original rules. You will see this concept parallels my pre-planning or dabbling concept in regards to evolution of living organisms. […]I look to find His methods in what we know about cosmology.

I agree that there is a parallel, and we look to find your God’s methods (and intentions) in what we know about all aspects of life. You insist that he knew what he wanted (humans) and how to get it (no experimenting). I keep asking why, in that case, you think he needed to create billions of other solar systems, extant and extinct, and the weaverbird’s nest, the frog’s tongue and the monarch butterfly’s lifestyle, in order to produce humans. Your answer is the nebulous “balance of nature”, which simply means he had to keep things going until he could dabble our planet/the human brain, or his Earth-producing /brain enlargement programmes could switch themselves on. Furthermore, although he knew and planned everything in advance, he may have kept discovering new limits and therefore HAVING to dabble (because his powers, but not his knowledge, may be limited) – but discovering and adapting cannot be called experimenting. All these convolutions suggest to me that your God-planned-it-all-for-humans hypothesis must at least be open to question.

DAVID: Of course, since you don't believe in God, you have every right to question His methods.

I neither believe nor disbelieve in God, but I have every right to question your interpretation both of his methods and of his intentions when they leave such colossal gaps. I wonder how many of your fellow theists believe that God planned every solar system and every evolutionary innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder, extant and extinct, in order to produce humans?