Autonomy and balance (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, June 04, 2016, 15:33 (3092 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: Since 99% of all species are extinct, who do you mean by “all”? Life means living organisms, and what you are saying in effect is that so long as life continues and there is food for whatever species happen to be around, nature is balanced. If every organism on earth except bacteria were to die, nature would therefore still be balanced, because life continues!-Yes. Even bacteria need food for survival. Life is continuous organization against entropy (2nd law)-> dhw; since "balance of nature" is so important to your concept of God's planning. Did he do it all, or did he leave it (mainly) to the organisms?-Balance is what results from animals' adaptations to their locality. They have epigenetics but s you know I don't know how much God steps in.-> dhw: When you say balance is out of adjustment, you presumably mean that human interference is causing mass extinction of species. Before humans, it was nature that caused the mass extinctions. But there was/is still food for the survivors, so how do you know what constitutes balance and imbalance? -If life continues nature is balanced or attains balance after an extinction.-> 
> DAVID: Once again contorting my thoughts. Certainly a complexifying mechanism running on its own gets to the h-p bush, and God can then step in to help iron out problems […] My God is certain of what happens next, while all this is going on.
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> dhw; “Running on its own” means the organisms themselves and not God are responsible for the higgledy-piggledy bush. That is not a contortion. If you insist that your God is clairvoyant, that is your personal reading of his mind and has nothing to do with the autonomy of the organisms. -You are contorting. God gives the organisms the mechanisms to use and the bush appears. I would assume that He knows the bush is coming with the help of his mechanism.
	
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> dhw:And what survived yesterday also worked. You don't get fossils of organisms that didn't live! I can't remember now what website you referred us to in relation to whales, but this one seems to me to offer a very clear account of their evolution, with explanations of the changes.-Of course the explanations are clear! Everything works with survival. I'm referring to the advanced planning required to move a nose to a blow hole, conceive, birth, and nurse under water when it has never been done before. Look at the required planning, not the survival results. This is true saltation and the point of my discussion.!
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> But if you think your God had to dabble to fix it all, that's OK with me. It is the autonomy of the mechanism with the bush spreading “as it wishes” that is my point of focus.-It may have worked that way