Teleology and Thomas Nagel (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Wednesday, April 20, 2016, 15:15 (3138 days ago)

As I see teleology everywhere, this is an excellent review of Nagel's book, Mind and cosmos, but also an attempted takedown of teleology as a driving philosophic argument:-https://aeon.co/essays/what-s-it-all-for-is-a-question-that-belongs-in-the-past?utm_source=Aeon+Newsletter&utm_campaign=1c815e907f-Daily_Newsletter_20_April_20164_19_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_411a82e59d-1c815e907f-68942561-"It was an idea long consigned to the dustbin of scientific history. ‘Like a virgin consecrated to God,' Francis Bacon declared nearly 400 years ago, it ‘produces nothing'. It was anti-rational nonsense, the last resort of unfashionable idealists and religious agitators. And then, late last year, one of the world's most renowned philosophers published a book arguing that we should take it seriously after all. Biologists and philosophers lined up to give the malefactor a kicking. His ideas were ‘outdated', complained some. Another wrote: ‘I regret the appearance of this book.' Steven Pinker sneered at ‘the shoddy reasoning of a once-great thinker'. The Guardian called it ‘the most despised science book of 2012'. So what made everyone so angry?-"The thinker was Thomas Nagel, the book was Mind and Cosmos, and the idea was teleology. In ancient science (or, as it used to be called, natural philosophy), teleology held that things — in particular, living things — had a natural end, or telos, at which they aimed. The acorn, Aristotle said, sprouted and grew into a seedling because its purpose was to become a mighty oak. Sometimes, teleology seemed to imply an intention to pursue such an end, if not in the organism then in the mind of a creator. It could also be taken to imply an uncomfortable idea of reverse causation, with the telos — or ‘final cause' — acting backwards in time to affect earlier events. For such reasons, teleology was ceremonially disowned at the birth of modern experimental science.-***-"In Mind and Cosmos, Nagel's suggested teleology does not involve a creator; it is merely a law-like tendency in the universe that somehow loads the dice in favour of the appearance of consciousness. In this conception, Nagel writes, ‘things happen because they are on a path that leads to certain outcomes'. (It is important that other laws of nature be non-deterministic, as quantum physics arguably implies they are, in order for the teleological law to have some purchase over events.) As Nagel puts it, it might be that the universe exhibits ‘a bias toward the marvellous'. If so, it would not be surprising that consciousness had appeared, because we live in a universe whose very purpose, aim, or telos, is the production of consciousness.-***-"In cosmology, in fact, teleological principles are seriously proposed in some quarters as an answer to the ‘fine-tuning' puzzle — why the laws of nature are ‘just right', to a very fine degree of precision, for allowing a universe that can support life. The physicist Paul Davies endorses a teleological ‘life principle' in his book The Goldilocks Enigma (2007). This is an example of what is called ‘anthropic' reasoning, which generally proceeds by inverting the question of human origins. Instead of asking how we came to be here in the universe as we understand it, an anthropic line of inquiry begins by observing that we are here, and then explores what that fact might tell us about the universe.-***-"Nagel's view seems even more vulnerable, on its own terms, over the bleaker long scale of time. Why should we assume that rational creatures like us (wherever they might be: Nagel notes the possibility of alien intelligences) are the telos of the universe, when there is plenty of universal history left to go yet? Some scientists forecast that the universe will eventually end in ‘heat death', a state of maximum entropy when there is no energy left for anything to happen. Perhaps that, instead, is the ultimate telos of the universe. If so, it might seem a gratuitous and even cosmically cruel diversion to have caused minds to have evolved along the way at all."-Comment: Wonderful essay. Read it all. Not my view, as I remain bound to teleology.

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by dhw, Thursday, April 21, 2016, 13:58 (3137 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: As I see teleology everywhere, this is an excellent review of Nagel's book, Mind and cosmos, but also an attempted takedown of teleology as a driving philosophic argument:-https://aeon.co/essays/what-s-it-all-for-is-a-question-that-belongs-in-the-past?utm_sou...-The fact that something functions in a certain way can only be described in terms of purpose if one assumes that the function corresponds to an intention. Intention implies some sort of conscious mind. That leaves us with a god or a form of panpsychism, as mentioned in the essay (and I would include my “autonomous inventive mechanism" in that category, while acknowledging the possibility of a god designing it). If there is no intention, we are left only with function and can forget teleology and forget god and panpsychism. It's therefore all chance until we get to the arrival of awareness (not to be confused with human or divine self-consciousness), after which we can have intentionality and purpose (such as to survive and improve). So it all comes down to when and how awareness first arose. And nobody knows.

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by David Turell @, Friday, April 22, 2016, 05:18 (3136 days ago) @ dhw

dhw; If there is no intention, we are left only with function and can forget teleology and forget god and panpsychism. It's therefore all chance until we get to the arrival of awareness (not to be confused with human or divine self-consciousness), after which we can have intentionality and purpose (such as to survive and improve). So it all comes down to when and how awareness first arose. And nobody knows.-There are at least two types of 'awareness' in the simple and complex limits of types of awareness: the simple awareness of a level of chemical presence, which can trigger a chemical response to it; and an awareness that requires a planned response. Bacteria had the first type from the beginning of life. the complex types appeared later reaching its pinnacle in human planning and awareness.

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by dhw, Friday, April 22, 2016, 15:15 (3136 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw; If there is no intention, we are left only with function and can forget teleology and forget god and panpsychism. It's therefore all chance until we get to the arrival of awareness (not to be confused with human or divine self-consciousness), after which we can have intentionality and purpose (such as to survive and improve). So it all comes down to when and how awareness first arose. And nobody knows.-DAVID: There are at least two types of 'awareness' in the simple and complex limits of types of awareness: the simple awareness of a level of chemical presence, which can trigger a chemical response to it; and an awareness that requires a planned response. Bacteria had the first type from the beginning of life. the complex types appeared later reaching its pinnacle in human planning and awareness.-I totally accept that there are different levels of awareness and intelligence, but the discussion here centres on teleology, which for me depends on intentionality, and that in turn depends on when and how awareness arose, of whatever kind and degree. According to you, it preceded life on Earth, in the form of your God (top down). Some theorists claim that awareness came into existence with the beginning of organic life (bottom up). Panpsychism argues that some form of awareness is present in all matter (theistic top down, non-theistic bottom up). Whichever of these is true will determine the beginning and the nature of intentionality.

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by romansh ⌂ @, Friday, April 22, 2016, 16:40 (3136 days ago) @ dhw

I can't help of thinking of awareness as a complicated feedback loop.-Our "awareness" or "now" stretches back up to three seconds, much shorter time spans reflex and sporting type activities for like catching a ball ... apparently.

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by David Turell @, Friday, April 22, 2016, 19:50 (3136 days ago) @ romansh

Romansh: I can't help of thinking of awareness as a complicated feedback loop.
> 
> Our "awareness" or "now" stretches back up to three seconds, much shorter time spans reflex and sporting type activities for like catching a ball ... apparently.-You mean the immediacy of current awareness, which does not include memory awareness.

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by romansh ⌂ @, Saturday, April 23, 2016, 02:21 (3135 days ago) @ David Turell

David:You mean the immediacy of current awareness, which does not include memory awareness. - I do mean awareness as in the past three seconds. Even when I remember stuff in the now, the act remembering is likely in the last three seconds. - Memories from fifty years ago I experience in the "now".

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by David Turell @, Saturday, April 23, 2016, 06:10 (3135 days ago) @ romansh

David:You mean the immediacy of current awareness, which does not include memory awareness.
> 
> Romansh: I do mean awareness as in the past three seconds. Even when I remember stuff in the now, the act remembering is likely in the last three seconds. 
> 
> Memories from fifty years ago I experience in the "now". - Fair enough.

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by David Turell @, Friday, April 22, 2016, 19:44 (3136 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: I totally accept that there are different levels of awareness and intelligence, but the discussion here centres on teleology, which for me depends on intentionality, and that in turn depends on when and how awareness arose, of whatever kind and degree. According to you, it preceded life on Earth, in the form of your God (top down). Some theorists claim that awareness came into existence with the beginning of organic life (bottom up). Panpsychism argues that some form of awareness is present in all matter (theistic top down, non-theistic bottom up). Whichever of these is true will determine the beginning and the nature of intentionality. - Excellent summary of the various positions.

Teleology and Thomas Nagel

by David Turell @, Sunday, February 12, 2017, 16:37 (2840 days ago) @ David Turell

Michael Ruse on teleology of life:

https://aeon.co/essays/what-s-a-stegosaur-for-why-life-is-design-like?utm_source=Aeon+N...

"As I have written about before in Aeon, the chemist James Lovelock got into very hot water with his fellow scientists when he wanted to talk about the Earth being an organism (the Gaia hypothesis) and its parts having purposes: that sea lagoons were for evaporating unneeded salt out of the ocean, for instance. And as Steven Poole wrote in his essay ‘Your point is?’ in Aeon earlier this year, the contemporary philosopher Thomas Nagel is also in hot water since he suggested in his book Mind and Cosmos (2012) that we need to use teleological understanding to explain the nature of life and its evolution.

"Some have thought that this lingering teleological language is a sign that biology is not a real science at all, but just a collection of observations and facts. Others argue that the apparent purposefulness of nature leaves room for God. Immanuel Kant declared that you cannot do biology without thinking in terms of function, of final causes: ‘There will never be a Newton for a blade of grass,’ he claimed in Critique of Judgment (1790), meaning that living things are simply not determined by the laws of nature in the way that non-living things are, and we need the language of purpose in order to explain the organic world.

***

"But historical teleology — the question of whether evolution itself takes a direction, in particular a progressive one, is a trickier problem, and I cannot say that there is yet, nor the prospect of there ever being, a satisfactory answer. One popular way to explain the apparent progress in evolution is as a biological arms race (a metaphor coined by Julian Huxley, incidentally). Through natural selection, prey animals get faster and so in tandem do predators. Perhaps, as in military arms races, eventually electronics and computers get ever more important, and the winners are those who do best in this respect. The British evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has argued that humans have the biggest on-board computers and that is what we expect natural selection to produce. But it is not obvious that arms races would result in humans — those physically feeble and mentally able omnivorous primates. Nor that lines of prey and predator evolve in tandem more generally.

"I’ll offer no final answers here, but one final question. Could a full-blown teleology, of the more scientific Aristotelian kind, reappear, complete with vital forces? There’s no logical reason to say this is impossible, and that is why I think it is legitimate for Nagel to raise the possibility. Two hundred years ago, people would have laughed at the idea of quantum mechanics, with all its violations of common-sense thinking. But there is a big difference: quantum mechanics was invented because it filled a big explanatory gap. This is Nagel’s big mistake: his argument for returning to the idea of purposes and goals in biology is not based on an extensive engagement with the science, but a philosophical skim across the surface. Quantum mechanics is weird, but it works. There is nothing in the idea of final causes to encourage such wishful thinking."

Comment: I still think evolution of humans shows purpose.

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