Evolution and the heart kidney interplay (Introduction)
by David Turell 
, Monday, September 15, 2014, 18:34 (3725 days ago)
There are medical reasons that cause me to believe that an evolutionary process created humans. The heart kidney relationship shows it. Heart attack and high blood pressure are modern human problems. Studies of primitive tribes confirm it. Heart attack, heart failure and high blood pressure are new human health problems in evolutionary history, based on dietary and exercise pattern changes. The responses of the kidney to these alterations in health will show the point I am making.-Heart failure is a reduction in blood flow output to the body by a weakened heart muscle. The kidney recognizes this change and proceeds to increase fluid retention and thereby dilute the blood and increase its total volume in the body. There is only one reasonable explanation. If one assumes that a major problem for ancient humans was injury and blood loss, adding fluid to maintain proper volume and flow and prevent shock, makes perfect sense for the kidney's reaction. Heart failure induces much fluid retention, exactly the wrong reaction needed. Drowning in your own fluids is no fun. But this is what evolution has given us.-High blood pressure is diet related. There is no question from studies of African-Americans who have not recovered in evolution from their African diet of 300 years ago, which is very different from our Western diet. Their evolution has not caught up. As a result 80% of patients in the dialysis units are Black with very damaged kidneys. However the other relationship for all humans is hardening of the arteries, but again not in primitive tribes. When the artery to the kidney has significant arteriosclerotic blockage, again the kidney relates this to a blood volume delivery problem and raises body blood pressure by releasing hormones that constrict vessels, reducing circulatory tree volume. Again, looking at a primitive human the logical assumption for his kidney is stop shock from blood loss by keeping the pressure up.-Where do I think God fits into all this? This is the primary reason I think God set evolution in motion and did some guidance, but note, He hasn't dabbled to correct this problem for us genetically. However our big brains allow us to handle it medically. This is why I think God gave us the big brains and a challenge to handle things ourselves. In this way we may pray, but the prayer gives us the strength to solve the problems ourselves. -I don't think another explanation is possible than evolution gone awry. We simply don't need those results.-For dhw: note the complex interplay, way beyond 'cell community intervention'. Your hypothesis ignores life's complexities. What I present is only the tip of an iceberg of information about how human life works under the skin, information of which it seems you are not aware in expecting your 'cells' to act so brilliantly.
Evolution and the heart kidney interplay
by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 03:38 (3725 days ago) @ David Turell
Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this the exact opposite of what we would expect from evolution? Evolution via NS and survival of the fittest says that these types of problems would be weeded out over time. On the contrary, simple mechanics says that if you don't maintain a thing, use it correctly, or provide it with what it needs to keep functioning, then it will deteriorate. Mechanics also tell us that repairing a thing is almost never as good as the original because damage spreads.-That is what this sounds like to me. You have a hydraulic pump that needs a certain amount of internal pressure, but not to much, in order to function at max efficiency and have fluid regulator whos job it is to try and compensate for fluctuations in those levels. Deterioration in the pump triggers the fluid regulator to start trying to perform its function, but the pump is already damaged at that point and tries to use its own fail safes at the wrong time. -This sounds more like devolution than evolution.
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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.
Evolution and the heart kidney interplay
by David Turell , Tuesday, September 16, 2014, 18:29 (3724 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained
Tony: Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this the exact opposite of what we would expect from evolution? Evolution via NS and survival of the fittest says that these types of problems would be weeded out over time.-The point is, probably not enough time to make changes. We Westerners have only become different fully in life style from hunter-gatherers over the last 4-6,000 years. Agriculture is only 10,000 years old.- An example of change, lactose tolerance. 85% of Africans cannot handle milk (Massai excluded). Homo s. left Africa 30-50,000 years ago, and most laplanders can handle milk easily. They had reindeer herds, drank the milk and adapted with the right enzyme, lactase. Mediterranean Europeans are 50/50 tolerant, etc.-> > Tony:That is what this sounds like to me. You have a hydraulic pump that needs a certain amount of internal pressure, but not to much, in order to function at max efficiency and have fluid regulator whos job it is to try and compensate for fluctuations in those levels. Deterioration in the pump triggers the fluid regulator to start trying to perform its function, but the pump is already damaged at that point and tries to use its own fail safes at the wrong time. > > This sounds more like devolution than evolution.-Not devolution, just a persistence of old evolutionary solutions that do not fit today's health problems, and God hasn't dabbled to fix things in the short time involved. And this is so fixed in the way the body works, I doubt humans can continue their current Western lifestyles and get the heart and kidney to adapt to a different solution. This is not the simple finding of a digestive enzyme that is generally lost after nursing. That is a simple re-adaptation, since the mechanism had been present in early life. -This discussion tells me evolution happened, but still presents me with the pre-planning/dabbling issue.