Ant species consciousness (Introduction)
by David Turell , Friday, November 08, 2013, 15:18 (4033 days ago)
A good example of Sheldrake's theory:-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131107103421.htm-View like an emergent 'mind' from the colony
Ant species consciousness
by dhw, Friday, November 08, 2013, 20:24 (4033 days ago) @ David Turell
DAVID: A good example of Sheldrake's theory:-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131107103421.htm-View like an emergent 'mind' from the colony.-I can't see an emergent mind from a colony as an example of species consciousness. The ants take each decision in accordance with their own past experiences. I see this more as an example of how intelligent cooperation can produce a unit greater than the sum of its parts. I have frequently used ants as an analogy to cellular cooperation. Our ant researchers use a similar analogy in the last of these three enlightening quotes: -"This means that, like people, ants take the past into account when weighing options while making a choice. The difference is that ants somehow manage to do this as a colony without any dissent." -"You have hundreds of these ants, and somehow they have to reach a consensus," Pratt said. "How do they do it without anyone in charge to tell them what to do?"-Pratt likened individual ants to individual neurons in the human brain. Both play a key role in the decision-making process, but no one understands how every neuron influences a decision."-Hm...cooperation, using information from the past, weighing options, making a choice, consensus, no-one in charge, like neurons...Hardly a description of automatons, is it?
Ant species consciousness
by David Turell , Saturday, November 09, 2013, 00:51 (4033 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw: I have frequently used ants as an analogy to cellular cooperation. Our ant researchers use a similar analogy in the last of these three enlightening quotes: > > "This means that, like people, ants take the past into account when weighing options while making a choice. The difference is that ants somehow manage to do this as a colony without any dissent." > > "You have hundreds of these ants, and somehow they have to reach a consensus," Pratt said. "How do they do it without anyone in charge to tell them what to do?"[/b]> [/color] > Pratt likened individual ants to individual neurons in the human brain. Both play a key role in the decision-making process, but no one understands how every neuron influences a decision." > > Hm...cooperation, using information from the past, weighing options, making a choice, consensus, no-one in charge, like neurons...Hardly a description of automatons, is it?-They are following plans and responses they have been give. But they also develop instincts, a process we do not understand. Note the bolded colored sentence. They have to be in comunication with each other somehow, and just as your mind weighs choices and reaches a conclusion, so do they. Since they don't have language or speech, it has to be at a consciousness level.
Ant species consciousness
by dhw, Saturday, November 09, 2013, 14:22 (4032 days ago) @ David Turell
Dhw (quoting) "You have hundreds of these ants, and somehow they have to reach a consensus," Pratt said. "How do they do it without anyone in charge to tell them what to do?"-Pratt likened individual ants to individual neurons in the human brain. Both play a key role in the decision-making process, but no one understands how every neuron influences a decision."-dhw: Hm...cooperation, using information from the past, weighing options, making a choice, consensus, no-one in charge, like neurons...Hardly a description of automatons, is it?-DAVID: They are following plans and responses they have been given. But they also develop instincts, a process we do not understand. Note the bolded colored sentence. They have to be in comunication with each other somehow, and just as your mind weighs choices and reaches a conclusion, so do they. Since they don't have language or speech, it has to be at a consciousness level.-Ants, just like cells, have their own form of language. Cells use chemicals, and so do ants (pherosomes), and ants also use sound and touch. They do not work by telepathy. Thank you for acknowledging that they weigh choices and reach conclusions just as we do. Quite clearly these elements of their make-up transcend mere instinct. If you are following a plan, you do not have to weigh choices or make decisions. It would therefore seem that they are not automatons.
Ant species consciousness
by David Turell , Saturday, November 09, 2013, 15:35 (4032 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw: Ants, just like cells, have their own form of language. Cells use chemicals, and so do ants (pherosomes), and ants also use sound and touch. They do not work by telepathy. Thank you for acknowledging that they weigh choices and reach conclusions just as we do. Quite clearly these elements of their make-up transcend mere instinct. If you are following a plan, you do not have to weigh choices or make decisions. It would therefore seem that they are not automatons.-In the article I just referred to under degree or kind, the author discusses bees in the same context as ants. Take a look:-http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-myth-of-the-continuum-of-creatures-a-reply-to-john-jeremiah-sullivan-part-one/