Past lives (Introduction)
by David Turell 
, Monday, November 04, 2013, 19:18 (4037 days ago)
Wow. Supports my idea of species consciousness:-http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2013/11/02/ian-stevensons-case-for-the-afterlife-are-we-skeptics-really-just-cynics/?WT_mc_id=SA_DD_20131104
Past lives
DAVID: Wow. Supports my idea of species consciousness:-http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2013/11/02/ian-stevensons-case-for-t...-Many thanks for this amazing article. I do hope BBella will read it, as it ties in with many of her ideas. What's described here is clearly reincarnation, but it's interesting that the memories fade ... as if a new identity gradually erases the earlier one. It also ties in with the cell memory article, in which some patients with transplants "inherit" character traits and memories of the donor. Quite different from NDEs, because then the identity returns to its original host. With all these strange phenomena, though, third party confirmation of otherwise unknowable information lends authenticity.-I can see very clearly how it all ties in with the concept of individual identities surviving the death of individual bodies, but perhaps, David, you could elaborate on how you think it supports the idea of species consciousness.
Past lives
by David Turell , Tuesday, November 05, 2013, 18:00 (4036 days ago) @ dhw
DAVID: Wow. Supports my idea of species consciousness: > > http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2013/11/02/ian-stevensons-case-for-t... > dhw: Many thanks for this amazing article. I do hope BBella will read it, as it ties in with many of her ideas. What's described here is clearly reincarnation, but it's interesting that the memories fade ... as if a new identity gradually erases the earlier one. It also ties in with the cell memory article, in which some patients with transplants "inherit" character traits and memories of the donor. Quite different from NDEs, because then the identity returns to its original host. With all these strange phenomena, though, third party confirmation of otherwise unknowable information lends authenticity.-Don't thank me. I'm constantly looking for new approaches and findings. Yes they are veridical, a key element in accepting the finding. > > dhw: I can see very clearly how it all ties in with the concept of individual identities surviving the death of individual bodies, but perhaps, David, you could elaborate on how you think it supports the idea of species consciousness.-The concept of species consciousness from Sheldrake's work implies that at some electromagentic quantum level floating around in our reality some of us can pick up the signals and even act upon them unconsciously. The cross word experiment to point: Published in London, solving in x time by subjects. Published later in Liverpool and solved in less time!!! That is just one example of what he produced Across generations the memories are preserved for the babies in human species conscousness. Could there be another mechanism. Certainly. Monarch butterflies come to mind. Migration maintained thru 4-6 generations with metamophosis thrown in. How is that done? Genome memory probably, unless we invoke butterfly species consciousness, and must keep our minds open to that interpretation.
Past lives
DAVID: Wow. Supports my idea of species consciousness:-http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2013/11/02/ian-stevensons-case-for-t...-dhw: Many thanks for this amazing article. DAVID: Don't thank me. I'm constantly looking for new approaches and findings.-That is why I thank you. Your search provides a constant source of education and wonderment for the rest of us.-Dhw: I can see very clearly how it all ties in with the concept of individual identities surviving the death of individual bodies, but perhaps, David, you could elaborate on how you think it supports the idea of species consciousness.-DAVID: The concept of species consciousness from Sheldrake's work implies that at some electromagentic quantum level floating around in our reality some of us can pick up the signals and even act upon them unconsciously. The cross word experiment to point: Published in London, solving in x time by subjects. Published later in Liverpool and solved in less time!!! That is just one example of what he produced Across generations the memories are preserved for the babies in human species conscousness. Could there be another mechanism. Certainly. Monarch butterflies come to mind. Migration maintained thru 4-6 generations with metamophosis thrown in. How is that done? Genome memory probably, unless we invoke butterfly species consciousness, and must keep our minds open to that interpretation.-Thank you again, but I understand the concept, and you have offered us these examples before (along with the blue tits), except for the new one of memories preserved for babies. That is what I don't understand. We are dealing here with reincarnation of individuals, with isolated experiences peculiar to those individuals. They have no value in themselves, and are often distressing. In the "brief guide", I tell a similar story drawn from my wife's family ... a child died, and another was born soon after and later recalled scenes from the dead child's life. This has nothing to do with any sort of mass communication: it's memory passed from one to one. And unlike your bluetits and your Monarchs, the memories appear to fade. What has that to do with species consciousness? I wish more research was being done on NDEs, transplant memories, reincarnation memories, and your species consciousness, but you may be right: we just need to find connections.
Past lives
by David Turell , Thursday, November 07, 2013, 02:45 (4035 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw: We are dealing here with reincarnation of individuals, with isolated experiences peculiar to those individuals. They have no value in themselves, and are often distressing. In the "brief guide", I tell a similar story drawn from my wife's family ... a child died, and another was born soon after and later recalled scenes from the dead child's life. This has nothing to do with any sort of mass communication: it's memory passed from one to one. ..... I wish more research was being done on NDEs, transplant memories, reincarnation memories, and your species consciousness, but you may be right: we just need to find connections.-That is why I keep reading. I've just finished Parnia's book. They are plowing ahead with their research but no answers so far. Two things are apparent: they are extremely impressed by the NDE's and OOB's events described. Many are veridical. Also he fiercely defends, as I have, that these are not hallucinations. They are related to consciousness during what he calls actual death. They have resuscitated patients literally hours after they entered into a dying state, by chilling their bodies so cells would stay alive during low states of oxygenation. No observable brain function by all means of testing, and yet they are revived with these very lucid memories.
Past lives
dhw: ...I wish more research was being done on NDEs, transplant memories, reincarnation memories, and your species consciousness, but you may be right: we just need to find connections.-DAVID: That is why I keep reading. I've just finished Parnia's book. They are plowing ahead with their research but no answers so far. Two things are apparent: they are extremely impressed by the NDE's and OOB's events described. Many are veridical. Also he fiercely defends, as I have, that these are not hallucinations. They are related to consciousness during what he calls actual death. They have resuscitated patients literally hours after they entered into a dying state, by chilling their bodies so cells would stay alive during low states of oxygenation. No observable brain function by all means of testing, and yet they are revived with these very lucid memories.-I'm still looking for connections. An elementary question: during these episodes, what happens to the heart? Is it kept pumping by artificial means? I ask because the implications of the transplant memories are that the brain is not the only seat of identity. Of course cell communities (organs) are interconnected, so why should the brain be the only container of identity (which includes memory)? Identity has to emerge from interaction between many cell communities. I'm not proposing anything ... just searching!
Past lives
by David Turell , Friday, November 08, 2013, 02:03 (4034 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw: I'm still looking for connections. An elementary question: during these episodes, what happens to the heart? Is it kept pumping by artificial means?-Yes,yes, yes. Chest compressions and they even have a machine for that to reduce human fatigue and which also improves oxygenation.-> dhw: I ask because the implications of the transplant memories are that the brain is not the only seat of identity. Of course cell communities (organs) are interconnected, so why should the brain be the only container of identity (which includes memory)? Identity has to emerge from interaction between many cell communities. I'm not proposing anything ... just searching!-I'm searching also. The DNA of a kidney transplanted into another person might be able to transmit via the blood stream messages to the DNA of the brain. Brain DNA does all sorts of transpositions in forming memory according to very current research in mice. I still think some quantum level mechanism is at work.-It is amazing what we do not know. And I can judge that by thinking back to my twenties in medicine and where it is now. 60 more years and who knows what we will understand. My contenton is still the same. The answer to atheism is more scientific knowledge. The main tenet of the quran is we shall know Him only by His works, but will never know Him directly. A more mature assessment than the OT or the NT.