1+1=2 (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Wednesday, October 30, 2013, 19:08 (3825 days ago) @ David Turell

ROLDADDY: From my point of view the 1's represent the components of the Big Bang and the 2 is the result. I just typed that simple math problem. I didn't wish it to appear or wait for it to complete itself. I made it happen. The same goes for the Big Bang. I can swallow what has said to have occurred after the Big Bang, but who/what caused the BANG to occur?-Simply stated, you cannot get something from nothing. This common belief leads me to believe in a creator.-DAVID: Rol, there has to be a first cause. Something from nothing is impossible, despite the atheists who try to twist quantum theory to claim that. What came before the quantum level? Valenkin has shown that even if one tries for a multiverse to get around the bb, there still has to be a start to the multiverse. So far there is no "before", before the bb.-A warm welcome from me too, Roldaddy. The Big Bang is indeed something we've discussed, and David and I agree with you that you can't get something from nothing. We cannot know what preceded the BB, assuming it happened, and in all honesty I've never understood why some theists believe it strengthens their case. If we assume that the "first cause" is eternal energy of some kind, there is no reason why it shouldn't have been big-banging away for universe after universe, coming up with an infinite variety of material combinations. Nor is there any reason why we should assume that it has always been or eventually became conscious of itself. We know that consciousness exists, but we can hardly argue that consciousness can only have been created by some power if we then go on to argue that God's consciousness wasn't created by any power. If his consciousness sprang from nowhere, then so could ours. The astonishing intricacy of life's many different mechanisms seems to me a far more potent argument for a designer/creator than the BB ... but that's another subject!-Once again, thank you for joining us.