Convergence or divergence? (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, September 13, 2013, 19:39 (4089 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw; So ants use information intelligently, but they are not intelligent. You have no idea how ants can make decisions and plan and implement strategies, but they are not intelligent. They are just wonderful. And smart. But smart does not mean intelligent.-DAVID: Their built in responses are guided by existing intelligence in their DNA.-Are there any organisms in the animal kingdom (including humans) whose responses are not guided by existing intelligence within the cells? Why is existing intelligence not to be called intelligence ... allowing for the fact that there are clearly different types and degrees of it?-dhw: But they do have the information which gives them the ability to solve problems, plan, adapt, communicate, invent etc. (not a bad definition of intelligence, is it?).
 
DAVID: Automatically. Let me admit that I do not understand how instinct works, and neither does anyone else. When a newborn foal is born, it gets up on its feet and suckles within an hour. It can barely see but it finds a teat. I have no idea how DNA tells it to do that. Ants work at that same level. They are intelligently programmed. Nothing more.-Once again you state an assumption ("Automatically") as if it were a fact. Nobody knows how instinct works, and nobody knows how intelligence/ consciousness works, and nobody knows precisely where "built in responses" (instinct) end and conscious decision-making begins. That applies as much to humans as to other organisms. But I don't think it's that difficult to distinguish between the instinct of suckling and the actions of planning and implementing strategies, communicating meaningfully, solving problems, innovating, all of which are generally regarded as signs of intelligence. So let me ask you again whether you would accept that cells (and ants) are intelligent, with the proviso that your God invented their intelligence and occasionally guides it.