Monism (Agnosticism)

by romansh ⌂ @, Wednesday, January 02, 2013, 23:28 (4344 days ago)

Monism as opposed to pluralism and dualism-
These concepts cover a wide range of subjects and philosophies.-For example a pantheist might be considered a monist in that the universe, its contents and god are one. Panentheists, deists and theists might be considered dualists in that they consider god somehow separate from the universe.-Similarly a monist thinks that mind and matter are one. (The purpose of this definition I consider matter as energy as one 'physical' concept). So for a monist it would be difficult to believe in free will. -Now I happen to think monism is a better description of the universe than either dualism or pluralism. Though I don't buy into whole heartedly into the monisms we find in wikipedia. (idealism, neutral, physical/material). -When science looks at the world it takes on a pragmatic pluralistic stance (I think) while recognizing underneath the world is monistic in nature.-
Thoughts?

Monism

by Balance_Maintained @, U.S.A., Thursday, January 03, 2013, 01:03 (4344 days ago) @ romansh

Deist/Theist consider God as separate from the universe? That is news to me. In fact, I would argue that it is virtually impossible to sustain the principal of a creator God without the basic assumption that it was inextricably intertwined with the natural world, regardless of your particular theology.

--
What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.

Monism

by David Turell @, Thursday, January 03, 2013, 01:22 (4344 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

BM:Deist/Theist consider God as separate from the universe? That is news to me. In fact, I would argue that it is virtually impossible to sustain the principal of a creator God without the basic assumption that it was inextricably intertwined with the natural world, regardless of your particular theology.-I agree. See my other entry on the subject today.

Monism

by romansh ⌂ @, Thursday, January 03, 2013, 19:41 (4344 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

Deist/Theist consider God as separate from the universe? That is news to me. In fact, I would argue that it is virtually impossible to sustain the principal of a creator God without the basic assumption that it was inextricably intertwined with the natural world, regardless of your particular theology.-I have not followed your posts carefully B_M, so apologies if misrepresent your point of view.-The very word you you chose "intertwined" hints at the duality, theisms in particular, point to.-Creator and creation - a duality.
In the Christian tradition we have the trinity. 
God loves us - again a duality (God and us)-I think it is great that your are striving for a monistic interpretation of our existence. I think Joseph Campbell has a great quote describing this:->> ... But the ultimate mystical goal is to be united with one's god. With that, duality is transcended and forms disappear. There is nobody there, no god, no you. Your mind, going past all concepts, has dissolved in identification with ground of your own being, because that to which the metaphorical image of your god refers to the ultimate mystery of your own being, which is the mystery of the being of the world as well.

Monism

by David Turell @, Thursday, January 03, 2013, 01:18 (4344 days ago) @ romansh


>rom; For example a pantheist might be considered a monist in that the universe, its contents and god are one. Panentheists, deists and theists might be considered dualists in that they consider god somehow separate from the universe.-My definition of panentheism is that God is both within and without the universe and literally contains the universe. I think you can find definitions like this. I consider myself a panentheist based on that definition. What I really think is God is a universal intelligence. One cannot explain the information the universe and life run on, especially the coding of life without bringing an intelligent mind into play.
> 
> rom: Similarly a monist thinks that mind and matter are one. (The purpose of this definition I consider matter as energy as one 'physical' concept). So for a monist it would be difficult to believe in free will. -I view energy as having or containing mind, but matter is a different form of energy.
> 
> rom: Now I happen to think monism is a better description of the universe than either dualism or pluralism. Though I don't buy into whole heartedly into the monisms we find in wikipedia. (idealism, neutral, physical/material). 
> 
> When science looks at the world it takes on a pragmatic pluralistic stance (I think) while recognizing underneath the world is monistic in nature.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?-I don't know which science starts with your definition of monism. I get all tangled up in these philosophic terms. I know what I think, and I have expressed that the basic idea that the universe is energy that comes in different forms, as matter and as mind. Therefore I guess I am a monist in your sense. We have discussed free will and I know I feel like I have it. The underlying neurophysiologic processes are all built to give me that impression and I am happy enough with that.

Monism

by romansh ⌂ @, Thursday, January 03, 2013, 20:43 (4344 days ago) @ David Turell

David - We had this exchange:->> Now if you would not mind and answer my question, do you believe in an intrinsic self?
> Absolutely. I am me, not someone else.-According to my axioms I use for monism your belief in an intrinsic self (free will etc.) is not compatible with monism or at least with monism as I see it.

Monism

by dhw, Friday, January 04, 2013, 12:36 (4343 days ago) @ David Turell

ROMANSH: Now I happen to think that monism is a better description of the universe than either dualism or pluralism. [...] When science looks at the world it takes on a pragmatic pluralistic stance (I think) while recognizing underneath the world is monistic in nature. Thoughts?-DAVID: I don't know which science starts with your definition of monism. I get all tangled up in these philosophic terms.-So do I. If we argue that the universe is composed of energy, we have monism. But if we argue, as David does, that energy comes "in different forms, as matter and mind", we have dualism. If we argue that there are different forms of matter (or different forms of mind), we have pluralism. The more ...isms we play with, the less clear the picture seems to become. I'm reminded of Osbert Lancaster's comment on John Ruskin, "whose distinction it was to express in prose of incomparable grandeur thought of an unparalleled confusion."

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