Sci. Am. denies NDE\'s mean anything (Introduction)
by David Turell 
, Tuesday, December 04, 2012, 20:49 (4349 days ago)
A very twisted blog om Alexander Eben's NDE articles and book. The Lancet study of 1990 is mentioned, and completely ignores the pertinent findings. The usual culprits, the ateists, are quoted with objections that are given full credence. The passage of true information that could not have been known to the patient during the episode, the sine qua non of the evidence, is not mentioned. A very biased blog.-http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/12/03/the-death-of-near-death-even-if-heaven-is-real-you-arent-seeing-it/?WT_mc_id=SA_DD_20121204
Sci. Am. denies NDE\'s mean anything: Greyson's response
by David Turell , Monday, December 27, 2021, 18:31 (1039 days ago) @ David Turell
His book "After", 2021, I've reviewed:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=after+by+greyson&i=stripbooks&crid=3A00EB21O5YVF&...
The title has two meanings. First how NDE's affect people's personalities after the event, and second what it may mean about afterlife. Certainly the overall effect is to remove fear of death, and most have a definite expectation of an 'after' for themselves.
The book is filled with many interview notes from a large number of the over one thousand NDEer's he consulted with, many in a psychiatric setting, others in his research, over a forty- year span. With all the reading I did I was very aware of Grayson, but this book is a compendium with information and his answers.
On pages 220-221 he offers his thoughts that the best theory that fits the facts is that the brain acts as a receiver of the mind. He uses a cell phone as an example while van Lommel used a radio. He accepts the premise brain and mind are most likely separate, but discusses the brain as sole operator. He does discuss viricidal NDE's, but his overall experience convinces him they are real even despite that clear evidence on its own. His final thoughts sounds like a religious leader's sermon when he describes how NDE's transform how experiencers live 'after'. At no point is there any sense Grayson is peddling religion. The book is scrupulously pure science as he maintains his researcher's strict role. He was under salary as an academic psychiatrist in an academic setting.
We have accepted NRE's on this website as phenomena Which need to be recognized and discussed. I recommend the book for all interested. NDE's are common occurring in up to 15-20% of folks, when searched for. It raises the question, why do we have them? Think about your answer. I have.
Sci. Am. denies NDE\'s mean anything: Greyson's response
DAVID: We have accepted NRE's on this website as phenomena Which need to be recognized and discussed. I recommend the book for all interested. NDE's are common occurring in up to 15-20% of folks, when searched for. It raises the question, why do we have them? Think about your answer. I have.
As I have constantly reiterated, the two main reasons for my inability to accept atheism are the arguments for design and psychic experiences such as NDEs, especially those in which the person concerned is given information which he/she could not have known beforehand and which proves to be correct.
Sci. Am. denies NDE\'s mean anything: Greyson's response
by David Turell , Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 15:54 (1038 days ago) @ dhw
DAVID: We have accepted NRE's on this website as phenomena Which need to be recognized and discussed. I recommend the book for all interested. NDE's are common occurring in up to 15-20% of folks, when searched for. It raises the question, why do we have them? Think about your answer. I have.
dhw: As I have constantly reiterated, the two main reasons for my inability to accept atheism are the arguments for design and psychic experiences such as NDEs, especially those in which the person concerned is given information which he/she could not have known beforehand and which proves to be correct.
NDE's confirm that the mind and brain can be separated by loss of the brain function and the mind still operates completely. Which means, as Greyson and van Lommel propose, the brain receives what the mind produces. Documented psychic episodes produced by humans fully awake, tell us a psychic mind-level exists in our reality. Thus the universe is both material and conscious. WE are purely material but can reach the conscious level with our consciousness.
Sci. Am. denies NDE\'s mean anything: Greyson's response
DAVID: We have accepted NRE's on this website as phenomena Which need to be recognized and discussed. I recommend the book for all interested. NDE's are common occurring in up to 15-20% of folks, when searched for. It raises the question, why do we have them? Think about your answer. I have.
dhw: As I have constantly reiterated, the two main reasons for my inability to accept atheism are the arguments for design and psychic experiences such as NDEs, especially those in which the person concerned is given information which he/she could not have known beforehand and which proves to be correct.
DAVID: NDE's confirm that the mind and brain can be separated by loss of the brain function and the mind still operates completely. Which means, as Greyson and van Lommel propose, the brain receives what the mind produces. Documented psychic episodes produced by humans fully awake, tell us a psychic mind-level exists in our reality. Thus the universe is both material and conscious. WE are purely material but can reach the conscious level with our consciousness.
So WE are not “purely material”! NDEs suggest that our mind (some people call it our soul) can exist independently of the body, and does so in an afterlife. NDEs are only one manifestation of this concept. Many people have had experiences of places or incidents or meetings that suggest a form of consciousness that operates independently of the time and space in which the living brain finds itself. As I said above, those cases which involve new information later confirmed by events are particularly impressive. I for one am not prepared to dismiss them. Materialism and dualism are opposing theories, and we spent some time a few years ago trying to reconcile them. The last discussion (“Reconciling materialism and dualism”) began on 5th January 2018.
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Sci. Am. denies NDE\'s mean anything: Greyson's response
by David Turell , Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 15:08 (1037 days ago) @ dhw
DAVID: We have accepted NRE's on this website as phenomena Which need to be recognized and discussed. I recommend the book for all interested. NDE's are common occurring in up to 15-20% of folks, when searched for. It raises the question, why do we have them? Think about your answer. I have.
dhw: As I have constantly reiterated, the two main reasons for my inability to accept atheism are the arguments for design and psychic experiences such as NDEs, especially those in which the person concerned is given information which he/she could not have known beforehand and which proves to be correct.
DAVID: NDE's confirm that the mind and brain can be separated by loss of the brain function and the mind still operates completely. Which means, as Greyson and van Lommel propose, the brain receives what the mind produces. Documented psychic episodes produced by humans fully awake, tell us a psychic mind-level exists in our reality. Thus the universe is both material and conscious. WE are purely material but can reach the conscious level with our consciousness.
So WE are not “purely material”! NDEs suggest that our mind (some people call it our soul) can exist independently of the body, and does so in an afterlife. NDEs are only one manifestation of this concept. Many people have had experiences of places or incidents or meetings that suggest a form of consciousness that operates independently of the time and space in which the living brain finds itself. As I said above, those cases which involve new information later confirmed by events are particularly impressive. I for one am not prepared to dismiss them. Materialism and dualism are opposing theories, and we spent some time a few years ago trying to reconcile them. The last discussion (“Reconciling materialism and dualism”) began on 5th January 2018.
NDE's certainly imply dualism