Precambrian environment (Introduction)
by David Turell 
, Thursday, September 27, 2012, 15:54 (4417 days ago)
Changes in oxygen levels and increasing fossil finds in China support the theories about environmental changes leading up to the Cambrian Explosion:-http://phys.org/news/2012-09-extreme-climate-linked-early-animal.html
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Thursday, May 23, 2013, 21:29 (4179 days ago) @ David Turell
This Chinese site has wonderful soft tissue fossils preserved. This refutes the argument that the Cambrian Explosion is due to a lack of precursor fossils. The jump to the Cambrian phyla is a true jump.-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maotianshan_Shales
Precambrian environment
DAVID: This Chinese site has wonderful soft tissue fossils preserved. This refutes the argument that the Cambrian Explosion is due to a lack of precursor fossils. The jump to the Cambrian phyla is a true jump.-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maotianshan_Shales-Once again, thank you for keeping us up to date with the science world. Two passages leapt out at me:-"About one in eight animals are problematic forms of uncertain affinity, some of which may have been evolutionary experiments that survived for only a brief period as benthic environments rapidly changed in the Cambrian."-It seems to me that this is a massive pointer to "the intelligent cell" experimenting (as opposed to a god dabbling, or a load of random mutations). Changing environments trigger experiments, some of which succeed, while others fail. Hence survival or extinction.-"The enigmatic Yunnanozoon lividum is considered to be the earliest hemichordate, possessing many of the characteristic chordate features and providing an anatomical link between invertebrates and chordates. Haikouella lanceolata is described to be the earliest craniate-like chordate. This fish-like animal has many similarities to Y. lividum, but also differs in several aspects: it has a discernible heart, dorsal and ventral aorta, gill filaments, and a notochord (neural chord)."-As sets of cells experiment within living organisms, other organisms may take up whatever is successful and develop it for themselves. We humans do this all the time, but maybe the same processes apply throughout Nature, as individual intelligences come up with new ideas. How they first came into being we don't know, but isn't this a convincing explanation of how evolution itself actually works? No random mutations, no missing fossils, shared ideas, cooperation, convergence, individual experiments and innovations leading to speciation...all derived from the mechanisms within "the intelligent cell".
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Friday, May 24, 2013, 15:15 (4179 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw: As sets of cells experiment within living organisms, other organisms may take up whatever is successful and develop it for themselves. We humans do this all the time, but maybe the same processes apply throughout Nature, as individual intelligences come up with new ideas. How they first came into being we don't know, but isn't this a convincing explanation of how evolution itself actually works? No random mutations, no missing fossils, shared ideas, cooperation, convergence, individual experiments and innovations leading to speciation...all derived from the mechanisms within "the intelligent cell".-I have no argument with this as long as we stick to the agreement that it all stems from a brilliantly designed genome to accomplish the changes.
Precambrian environment
dhw: As sets of cells experiment within living organisms, other organisms may take up whatever is successful and develop it for themselves. We humans do this all the time, but maybe the same processes apply throughout Nature, as individual intelligences come up with new ideas. How they first came into being we don't know, but isn't this a convincing explanation of how evolution itself actually works? No random mutations, no missing fossils, shared ideas, cooperation, convergence, individual experiments and innovations leading to speciation...all derived from the mechanisms within "the intelligent cell".-DAVID: I have no argument with this as long as we stick to the agreement that it all stems from a brilliantly designed genome to accomplish the changes.-We have devised a new theory of evolution, for which we are sure to win the Nobel Prize. But all must be clear between us before we travel to Stockholm. The question of what produced the brilliant design must remain open!
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Tuesday, May 28, 2013, 02:47 (4175 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw: We have devised a new theory of evolution, for which we are sure to win the Nobel Prize. But all must be clear between us before we travel to Stockholm. The question of what produced the brilliant design must remain open!-Stockholm is on my travel bucket list.
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Monday, October 28, 2013, 14:26 (4022 days ago) @ David Turell
There was lots of oxygen before the Cambrian explosion 2 billlion years ago. Why did it take until 540 million years ago to happen? No one knows.-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131018132205.htm
Precambrian environment
DAVID: There was lots of oxygen before the Cambrian explosion 2 billlion years ago. Why did it take until 540 million years ago to happen? No one knows.-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131018132205.htm-QUOTE: "The development of life exploded around 542 million years ago during the so-called Cambrian explosion, where oxygen levels rose to up to 10 percent. Before that life consisted of small and simple, typically single-celled life forms, and science has long thought that there was not enough oxygen for it to evolve into something bigger."-A rise of up to 10% would be substantial enough to make a difference. But I really don't trust measurements of this kind. You can't help thinking that in a thousand years' time ... or even 100 ... all the calculations will be different.-QUOTE: "We have examined rocks that are 2.15 billion -- 2.08 billion years old. They show us that there was oxygen in deep water and thus also in the atmosphere at that time. We cannot say exactly how much, but there was probably ample oxygen and also ample time to permit advanced life to evolve," says Emma Hammarlund."-They cannot say how much, but there was PROBABLY ample...If you don't read these articles carefully enough, you come up with conclusions like: "There was lots of oxygen...".-QUOTE: "The same research team has previously demonstrated the existence of some strange fossils from the same place. The researchers interpret these fossils as a way of life that tried to evolve into a multicellular life form. "It was not a life form that in any way is comparable to large life as we know it today. It was rather microbes that experimented with a way to evolve into some form of multicellular existence. It had enough oxygen for the experiment, but its destiny is unknown," she says."-I find this very interesting. "A way of life that tried to evolve into a multicellular life form...", "...microbes that experimented with a way to evolve into some form of multicellular existence..." Margulis's concept of evolution proceeding through cooperation continues to gain ground. But what cooperates? These appear to be cells trying to merge. According to David, they were automatons obeying God's built-in instructions. I'd like to know more about these strange fossils. "Microbes experimenting" doesn't sound like automatons obeying instructions, but I guess different scientists have different interpretations.....
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Tuesday, October 29, 2013, 21:46 (4020 days ago) @ dhw
dhw: A rise of up to 10% would be substantial enough to make a difference. But I really don't trust measurements of this kind. You can't help thinking that in a thousand years' time ... or even 100 ... all the calculations will be different.-Again they were using isotopes with known half-lifes. Fairly trustworthy if you beliieve scientists. > > dhw: They cannot say how much, but there was PROBABLY ample...If you don't read these articles carefully enough, you come up with conclusions like: "There was lots of oxygen...".-Oxygen has been all over the place in concentration. at one point as high as 25% which resulted in huge forest fires, as shown by ash levels at the layer of that time in history. -> > dhw: I find this very interesting. "A way of life that tried to evolve into a multicellular life form...", "...microbes that experimented with a way to evolve into some form of multicellular existence..." Margulis's concept of evolution proceeding through cooperation continues to gain ground.-With whom? This is just stream of consciousness writing, no substance in fact. > dhw: But what cooperates? These appear to be cells trying to merge. According to David, they were automatons obeying God's built-in instructions. I'd like to know more about these strange fossils. "Microbes experimenting" doesn't sound like automatons obeying instructions, but I guess different scientists have different interpretations.....-We do know what we don't know: how evolution really works.
Precambrian environment
dhw: A rise of up to 10% would be substantial enough to make a difference. But I really don't trust measurements of this kind. You can't help thinking that in a thousand years' time ... or even 100 ... all the calculations will be different.-DAVID: Again they were using isotopes with known half-lifes. Fairly trustworthy if you beliieve scientists.-I like your "if".-dhw: They cannot say how much, but there was PROBABLY ample...If you don't read these articles carefully enough, you come up with conclusions like: "There was lots of oxygen...".-DAVID: Oxygen has been all over the place in concentration. at one point as high as 25% which resulted in huge forest fires, as shown by ash levels at the layer of that time in history.-One theory is that the Cambrian explosion occurred because of an increase in oxygen. I really can't see anything in the article that undermines that theory. But of course it needn't be so. We just feel there must have been a trigger. Presumably your suggestion is that your God suddenly stepped in...but to do what, exactly? Change the environment (back to oxygen), or shove a few extra programmes into the automatons? -dhw: I find this very interesting. "A way of life that tried to evolve into a multicellular life form...", "...microbes that experimented with a way to evolve into some form of multicellular existence..." Margulis's concept of evolution proceeding through cooperation continues to gain ground.-DAVID: With whom? This is just stream of consciousness writing, no substance in fact.-Cooperation between cells and cell communities. That is how innovations take place, whether preprogrammed or not! Cooperation has been observed on a huge scale. You as a doctor are more aware of the science than I am, but even I know that without cooperation between the different cell communities in my body, I would be dead. The question is not whether they cooperate, but why they cooperate. You say they are preprogrammed to do so, and of course once the pattern of behaviour is established (the organ works), each cell ... like each ant ... plays its assigned role(s), but that does not explain how already functioning cell communities came up with new ideas. THAT is the great mystery.-DAVID: We do know what we don't know: how evolution really works.-True. And so we exchange ideas, test them, and argue the hind legs off each other.
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Thursday, October 31, 2013, 17:32 (4018 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw: One theory is that the Cambrian explosion occurred because of an increase in oxygen. I really can't see anything in the article that undermines that theory. But of course it needn't be so. We just feel there must have been a trigger. Presumably your suggestion is that your God suddenly stepped in...but to do what, exactly? Change the environment (back to oxygen), or shove a few extra programmes into the automatons?-I have no idea. It is clear that Darwin was worried about the Cambrian. His worry has only gotten much worse. No honest precursors, and then extreme complexity. >> > dhw: Cooperation between cells and cell communities. That is how innovations take place, whether preprogrammed or not! Cooperation has been observed on a huge scale. You as a doctor are more aware of the science than I am, but even I know that without cooperation between the different cell communities in my body, I would be dead. The question is not whether they cooperate, but why they cooperate. You say they are preprogrammed to do so, and of course once the pattern of behaviour is established (the organ works), each cell ... like each ant ... plays its assigned role(s), but that does not explain how already functioning cell communities came up with new ideas. THAT is the great mystery.-Not to me. They follow a plan they were given. You cannot make a kidney from scratch. And there were kidney-like organs in the Cambrian. Plans require a preexisting intelligence to make the plan.
Precambrian environment
dhw: One theory is that the Cambrian explosion occurred because of an increase in oxygen. I really can't see anything in the article that undermines that theory. But of course it needn't be so. We just feel there must have been a trigger. Presumably your suggestion is that your God suddenly stepped in...but to do what, exactly? Change the environment (back to oxygen), or shove a few extra programmes into the automatons?-DAVID: I have no idea. It is clear that Darwin was worried about the Cambrian. His worry has only gotten much worse. No honest precursors, and then extreme complexity.-I'm not worried about Darwin's worries, I'm worried about David Turell's theories. You quite rightly refer to the Cambrian Explosion as a huge problem for the theory of random mutations. But since you believe so firmly in God's plans, and in the inability of cell communities to invent all these astonishing novelties, I can't believe you haven't got a theory to explain it. I've offered you two: 1) God increased the oxygen; 2) God shoved some extra programmes into the preceding generations of organisms. Here's another: 3) God preprogrammed an increase in oxygen, having already preprogrammed the first living organisms to pass on programmes to create countless new organs and species as soon as he'd increased the oxygen. Doesn't that fit in nicely with your scenario? Dhw: The question is not whether they [cell communities] cooperate, but why they cooperate. You say they are preprogrammed to do so, and of course once the pattern of behaviour is established (the organ works), each cell ... like each ant ... plays its assigned role(s), but that does not explain how already functioning cell communities came up with new ideas. THAT is the great mystery.-DAVID: Not to me. They follow a plan they were given. You cannot make a kidney from scratch. And there were kidney-like organs in the Cambrian. Plans require a preexisting intelligence to make the plan.-So back we go to 1), 2) and 3). I knew you must have at least one theory! Here's one more: God (or maybe not) endowed cells with an intelligence of their own, so that by combining their evolving intelligences in vast cooperating communities, they were able to exploit new conditions (the Cambrian) to come up with new organs and species.
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Friday, November 01, 2013, 14:56 (4017 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw: I'm not worried about Darwin's worries, I'm worried about David Turell's theories. You quite rightly refer to the Cambrian Explosion as a huge problem for the theory of random mutations. But since you believe so firmly in God's plans, and in the inability of cell communities to invent all these astonishing novelties, I can't believe you haven't got a theory to explain it.....-I don't have a theory. All I know is it takes plan to make a kidney. It takes a mind with consciousness to make such a complicated plan.- > > dhw: So back we go to 1), 2) and 3). I knew you must have at least one theory! Here's one more: God (or maybe not) endowed cells with an intelligence of their own, so that by combining their evolving intelligences in vast cooperating communities, they were able to exploit new conditions (the Cambrian) to come up with new organs and species.-No, i'm sticking to one fact, it takes a mind to make a plan. All the rest is speculation.
Precambrian environment
dhw: I'm not worried about Darwin's worries, I'm worried about David Turell's theories. You quite rightly refer to the Cambrian Explosion as a huge problem for the theory of random mutations. But since you believe so firmly in God's plans, and in the inability of cell communities to invent all these astonishing novelties, I can't believe you haven't got a theory to explain it.....-DAVID: I don't have a theory. All I know is it takes plan to make a kidney. It takes a mind with consciousness to make such a complicated plan. [...] I'm sticking to one fact, it takes a mind to make a plan. All the rest is speculation. -You have been telling me that God preprogrammed innovations - which must include all the Cambrian innovations - from the start (indeed, I recall you saying that was the only way), that the production of humans was his purpose from the start, and that (mysteriously) cell communities have a choice between a, b and c. Sounds like a theory to me. However, I agree that it takes intelligence to make a complicated plan, but that need not mean one mind. I've suggested the possibility that cells have an ever evolving intelligence (possibly God-given) that might have enabled them to cooperate in creating all the different branches of the evolutionary bush. As analogies I've used the emergence of consciousness from the colossal community of the brain cells, and the emergence of intelligent architecture, lifestyles and strategies from the colossal community of cooperating ants. You dismiss this speculation as poppycock, but since you acknowledge that your above suggestions (none of which have any backing from science) are also speculation, I'd say we're pretty level pegging!
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Sunday, November 03, 2013, 01:08 (4016 days ago) @ dhw
> dhw; You have been telling me that God preprogrammed innovations - which must include all the Cambrian innovations - from the start (indeed, I recall you saying that was the only way), that the production of humans was his purpose from the start, and that (mysteriously) cell communities have a choice between a, b and c. Sounds like a theory to me. However, I agree that it takes intelligence to make a complicated plan, but that need not mean one mind. I've suggested the possibility that cells have an ever evolving intelligence (possibly God-given) that might have enabled them to cooperate in creating all the different branches of the evolutionary bush. As analogies I've used the emergence of consciousness from the colossal community of the brain cells, and the emergence of intelligent architecture, lifestyles and strategies from the colossal community of cooperating ants. You dismiss this speculation as poppycock, but since you acknowledge that your above suggestions (none of which have any backing from science) are also speculation, I'd say we're pretty level pegging!-Not at all. You have invented parlimentary cells that have committes, draw up complex plans to create kidneys. All to avoid a choice: chance or design. You have found Nagel's third way!! You must write a book. We can call it "The Intelligent Cell" And create the Wilsonian revolution in biology. At least my speculations have a basis in reality.
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Sunday, November 03, 2013, 01:09 (4016 days ago) @ David Turell
> > dhw; You have been telling me that God preprogrammed innovations - which must include all the Cambrian innovations - from the start (indeed, I recall you saying that was the only way), that the production of humans was his purpose from the start, and that (mysteriously) cell communities have a choice between a, b and c. Sounds like a theory to me. However, I agree that it takes intelligence to make a complicated plan, but that need not mean one mind. I've suggested the possibility that cells have an ever evolving intelligence (possibly God-given) that might have enabled them to cooperate in creating all the different branches of the evolutionary bush. As analogies I've used the emergence of consciousness from the colossal community of the brain cells, and the emergence of intelligent architecture, lifestyles and strategies from the colossal community of cooperating ants. You dismiss this speculation as poppycock, but since you acknowledge that your above suggestions (none of which have any backing from science) are also speculation, I'd say we're pretty level pegging! > > Not at all. You have invented parliamentary cells that have committes, draw up complex plans to create kidneys. All to avoid a choice: chance or design. You have found Nagel's third way!! You must write a book. We can call it "The Intelligent Cell" And create the Wilsonian revolution in biology. At least my speculations have a basis in reality.
Precambrian environment
by David Turell , Wednesday, August 05, 2015, 14:39 (3376 days ago) @ David Turell
Another sea floor fossil and how it reproduced in the Precambrian era. it is a simple form reminiscent of the Ediacarans of Australia:-http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/43675/title/Ancient-Reproduction/- "About 550 million years ago, at the bottom of the ocean near modern-day Newfoundland, organisms called rangeomorphs were reproducing in remarkably complex ways. The creatures could create clones as plants do, plus bud off progeny that could float away and produce their own clones, according to a study published this week (August 3) in Nature.-“'Reproduction in this way made rangeomorphs highly successful, since they could both colonise new areas and rapidly spread once they got there,” Emily Mitchell, a postdoc at the University of Cambridge who led the study, said in a press release. “The capacity of these organisms to switch between two distinct modes of reproduction shows just how sophisticated their underlying biology was, which is remarkable at a point in time when most other forms of life were incredibly simple.”-"Neither plant nor animal, rangeomorphs were some of the first complex organisms to have evolved. They had a flat, oval shape that branched in a fern-like pattern. They likely lived at on the seafloor and absorbed nutrients.-"Analyzing fossils, Mitchell and her colleagues found the distribution of a particular rangeomorph, Fractofusus, clustered around a large, presumably founding specimen of the colony—similar to how plants send out runners. The location of these large Fractofusus fossils suggested they had settled after being released into the water as so-called propagules.-“'Such a strategy would have allowed for the rapid exploitation of localized areas, as well as for transport to new, previously uncolonized areas,” the authors wrote in their report.-"Simon Conway Morris of the University of Cambridge who was not part of the research told Discovery News that Fractofusus and similar organisms “are abundant, well-preserved and have a global distribution, but they remain amongst the most enigmatic fossils, and any new light on their way of life is important.'”
Precambrian environment: rangeomorphs
by David Turell , Wednesday, August 05, 2015, 22:15 (3375 days ago) @ David Turell
More information on this strange organism, very simple compared to the Cmbrians:-http://www.livescience.com/51725-earliest-known-complex-reproduction.html?cmpid=NL_LS_weekly_2015-08-05-"The creatures prospered in the ocean during the late Ediacaran period, between 580 million and 541 million years ago, just before the Cambrian era. Rangeomorphs could grow up to 6.5 feet (2 meters) in length, but most were about 4 inches (10 centimeters) long.-"What's more, rangeomorphs don't appear to have been equipped with mouths, organs or the ability to move around, and the animals likely absorbed nutrients from the water, the researchers said. However, these ancient organisms had an unusually complex reproductive strategy for their time: They likely sent out an "advance party" to settle a new neighborhood, and then colonized the new area, the researchers said. -***-"Using a combination of statistical techniques, high-resolution GPS and computer modeling, the researchers found an intriguing pattern in the distribution of Fractofusus populations. The larger Fractofusus, or "grandparent" specimens, were randomly distributed around the environment, surrounded by distinctive populations of smaller "parent" and "children" Fractofusus, the researchers said.-"These patterns of grandparent, parent and children Fractofusus are similar to biological clustering seen in modern plants, the researchers said. In fact, it's likely the creatures had two reproductive methods: The grandparents were likely born from ejected waterborne seeds or spores, whereas the parents and children likely grew from "runners," sent by the older generation, just as strawberry plants grow today.-"The "generational" clustering suggests that Fractofusus reproduced asexually using runners called stolons. However, it's unclear whether the waterborne seeds or spores were sexual or asexual in nature, the researchers said."