The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve (Evolution)

by BBella @, Monday, April 09, 2012, 22:04 (4419 days ago)

Just thought I'd throw this interesting info on the RLN, especially to David. -Last week I went to my family doc because of what seemed to be heart attack symptoms. After giving me an EKG my doc sent me immediately over to the Heart Center for more tests because of a few abnormal blips. Then I was sent home by the that Heart doc with some nitro and appointments for tests the next day. The next day after those tests (which I was set for another appt for diagnosis the next week) I was rushed to the emergency room for what again felt like heart attack symptoms.-The ER doc took a battery of tests and inquired into the Heart Centers tests results and came to a surprising conclusion - my heart was in great shape but the voice disorder I have, called Spastic Dysphonia, which I've had for many years, may be linked to the spasms in my chest, neck and and shoulder. He said it was possible the spasms may actually being caused by a spastic nerve related to my voice disorder called the Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve.-After looking up some information on this particular nerve, I found this interesting article on the Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve on what appears to be a Christian Ministries website. I thought I would share it here, not only for it's interesting insight into evolution and it's oddities, but to see if you, David, have any understanding of how this nerve may be linked to the spasms I had and possibly my voice disorder. -By the way, my chiropractor told me to up my intake of magnesium to relax the esophageal pathway and possibly this RLN nerve. It seems to have done the trick....so far.-[EDIT]
Here is the site link: http://creation.com/recurrent-laryngeal-nerve-Hope this is not TMI!-bb

The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve

by David Turell @, Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 00:58 (4419 days ago) @ BBella

Just thought I'd throw this interesting info on the RLN, especially to David. 
- my heart was in great shape but the voice disorder I have, called Spastic Dysphonia, which I've had for many years, may be linked to the spasms in my chest, neck and and shoulder. He said it was possible the spasms may actually being caused by a spastic nerve related to my voice disorder called the Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve.-Feels like I am back in MED SCHOOL. The article you offer shows why the RLN's offer so much to dopes like Dawkins. Like the backwards retina, which can see one photon!!
> 
> but to see if you, David, have any understanding of how this nerve may be linked to the spasms I had and possibly my voice disorder. -This nerve's primary feed is to the larnyx, and I am sure relates to your spastic dysphonia, through nerve irritability, which is why the chiropractor suggested magnesium. That same irritability could cause the chest spasms in other branches off the RLN. Health food store quinine might also help the chest muscle spasms
> 
> By the way, my chiropractor told me to up my intake of magnesium to relax the esophageal pathway and possibly this RLN nerve. It seems to have done the trick....so far.
 
 
> bb

The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve

by BBella @, Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 04:32 (4419 days ago) @ David Turell

but to see if you, David, have any understanding of how this nerve may be linked to the spasms I had and possibly my voice disorder. 
> 
> This nerve's primary feed is to the larnyx, and I am sure relates to your spastic dysphonia, through nerve irritability, which is why the chiropractor suggested magnesium. That same irritability could cause the chest spasms in other branches off the RLN. Health food store quinine might also help the chest muscle spasms
> > 
> > By the way, my chiropractor told me to up my intake of magnesium to relax the esophageal pathway and possibly this RLN nerve. It seems to have done the trick....so far.-Thanks David, I appreciate the info and quick response! Will definitely look for the quinine asap! -bb

The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve

by dhw, Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 16:31 (4418 days ago) @ BBella

Dear BBella,-I haven't a clue about Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve, but I do know something scary when I hear about it. This is just to wish you a speedy recovery with the aid of your doctor, your chiropractor, and our very own Doctor David.-dhw

The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve

by David Turell @, Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 17:53 (4418 days ago) @ dhw

Dear BBella,
> 
> I haven't a clue about Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve, but I do know something scary when I hear about it. This is just to wish you a speedy recovery with the aid of your doctor, your chiropractor, and our very own Doctor David.
> 
> dhw-Spastic dysphonia is an oddball condition. It causes people to have spastic vocal cords which then obviously interfers with them speaking normally. It is generally episodic and therefore very annoying, but most of the time the patients can speak normally. It is thought to be caused by a person having been under extreme stress at some point in their life. One is not born with it. Note that BBella has described extreme stress in her life, and so she fits the clinical picture. Counselling can revieve the situation, and my cousin (with inherited depression) was totally cured by counselling and medication for her depression. BBella, please note.-As for the RLN, development of a prolonged neck in evolution with the RLN looped around blood vessels, dragged the loop bigger and longer. It still works just as well, and in the discussions about God's designs, one must remember that useful design is not always artisically beautiful design, as perceived by the disconnected onlooker. Again, the inside-out, upside-down and backward human retina can see one photon! Why? The design allows for high blood flow and very high nutrition. I think Dawkins probably knows this, but won't ever discuss these designs rationally. It will damage his position.

Depression and aging

by David Turell @, Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 19:40 (4418 days ago) @ David Turell

Depression has an amazing effect on the body. It is damaging. My first wife with an inherited chronic depression died of a lung cancer, just like her mother's cancer (same cell type, same place in the lung) but at age 61, while her mother was 86. Her mother was not depressed. This article makes the point strongly and describes the genetic changes in telomeres that reduces the protection of genes and allows for the damage:-http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304587704577333941351135910.html?KEYWORDS=Shirley+S+Wang

The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve

by Balance_Maintained @, U.S.A., Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 00:15 (4418 days ago) @ David Turell

David: As for the RLN, development of a prolonged neck in evolution with the RLN looped around blood vessels, dragged the loop bigger and longer. It still works just as well, and in the discussions about God's designs, one must remember that useful design is not always artisically beautiful design, as perceived by the disconnected onlooker. Again, the inside-out, upside-down and backward human retina can see one photon! Why? The design allows for high blood flow and very high nutrition. I think Dawkins probably knows this, but won't ever discuss these designs rationally. It will damage his position.-It is rare that I find a particular line item that refreshes and restores my faith in design, but this was certainly one of them. There were certain points that I took from the article, and one of the other articles that it linked to that were especially potent. First, this was not something that could have just evolved. Through chance mutation. The changes, such as the pathing to and around the various organs had to have occurred all at the exact same time in order to work. Primarily because a) the nerve bundle must elongate during gestation of the fetus, b) because each and every organ, plus the supporting elements of those organs like the RLN must function at every stage of embryonic development, and C) because changes would have had to have occured to, not only the nerve, but all of the organs it supports at the same time, in order for evolution to have been able to make it work. Thank you for sharing this link with us Bella.

--
What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.

The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve

by BBella @, Thursday, April 12, 2012, 04:32 (4417 days ago) @ David Turell

Dear BBella,
> > 
> > I haven't a clue about Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve, but I do know something scary when I hear about it. 
> > 
> > dhw
> 
> [David] Spastic dysphonia is an oddball condition. It causes people to have spastic vocal cords which then obviously interfers with them speaking normally. It is generally episodic and therefore very annoying, but most of the time the patients can speak normally. -David, my condition began in 1987 after a particularly traumatic pregnancy and gradually worsened from there, especially after several other stressful prolonged events in my life. I do rarely speak now unless I have to because my voice is nearly unintelligible or sometimes just inaudible, especially if my emotions are involved in any way. Oddly, though, my 2 year old grandson has no problem whatsoever in understanding me. ->It is thought to be caused by a person having been under extreme stress at some point in their life. One is not born with it. Note that BBella has described extreme stress in her life, and so she fits the clinical picture. Counselling can revieve the situation, and my cousin (with inherited depression) was totally cured by counselling and medication for her depression. BBella, please note.-I've never considered myself as having depression. Even when I couldn't move during the 5 year Rheumatoid inflammation, I wasn't one to ask "why me?" And I always looked to what I was thankful for, not what I could no longer do. People always remarked at my optimistic attitude thru everything I went thru. Even the day I chose to die wasn't because I was depressed, it was because I was tired of the physical pain. Also, I could not find a medication for depression that didn't make me feel depressed. So I just couldn't take them and there was no change in my voice on any of them anyway. And as for the counselors, they seemed to have more problems than I did. But, of all things, recently I have been seeing an awesome hypnotherapist who may just get to the suppressed emotions that is supposedly at work when it comes to my voice. Who knows? I am open to anything! -Oh, and the online voice disorder group I'm involved with has recently been talking of a new type of injection that is getting better reviews than botox, so I am looking into that as well. But I am surprised that with the extra magnesium and iodine my chiropractor recently recommended is already giving me more voice control than usual. I dare to hope! 
 
>[dhw]This is just to wish you a speedy recovery with the aid of your doctor, your chiropractor, and our very own Doctor David.-Thanks for the well wishes, dhw!!! For such great support (from all involved) I am thankful and comforted.->[Tony] Thank you for sharing this link with us Bella.-You are welcomed Tony!!! I was thankful to find it! It really opened my eyes and connected the disconnection of what's going on inside me in a physical way. The miracle of the human anatomy just blows me away sometimes...well... it's just amazing anything works at all when you think about it!!!-bb

The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve

by David Turell @, Thursday, April 12, 2012, 05:31 (4417 days ago) @ BBella

Oddly, though, my 2 year old grandson has no problem whatsoever in understanding me. -Little kids have a built in filter for language and can learn any language available if given just a litle time. He hears your spastic speech as a new language and he will learn it and understand it, but without your spastic larynx probcably won't be able to speak liked you.
> 
> >It is thought to be caused by a person having been under extreme stress at some point in their life. One is not born with it. Note that BBella has described extreme stress in her life, and so she fits the clinical picture. Counselling can revieve the situation, and my cousin (with inherited depression) was totally cured by counselling and medication for her depression. BBella, please note.
> 
> I've never considered myself as having depression. -I didn't mean to imply that you were depressed. That was just part of the story I told, but emotions do play a major role in the syndrome.-> Even when I couldn't move during the 5 year Rheumatoid inflammation, I wasn't one to ask "why me?" And I always looked to what I was thankful for, not what I could no longer do. People always remarked at my optimistic attitude thru everything I went thru. But, of all things, recently I have been seeing an awesome hypnotherapist who may just get to the suppressed emotions that is supposedly at work when it comes to my voice. Who knows? I am open to anything!-With the rheumatoid background, has anyone entered into the idea of looking for changes in the structure of the larynx and treating with Rheumatoid drugs if necessary. 
> 
> Oh, and the online voice disorder group I'm involved with has recently been talking of a new type of injection that is getting better reviews than botox, so I am looking into that as well. But I am surprised that with the extra magnesium and iodine my chiropractor recently recommended is already giving me more voice control than usual. I dare to hope! Look into the quinine health food store variety.

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