Are We alone; fun and games (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Saturday, April 30, 2016, 19:32 (2912 days ago)

The Drake equation is now being updated, since we now know how many stars have planets in this galaxy:-http://phys.org/news/2016-04-limits-uniqueness.html-
"Are humans unique and alone in the vast universe? This question—summed up in the famous Drake equation—has for a half-century been one of the most intractable and uncertain in science. -"But a new paper shows that the recent discoveries of exoplanets combined with a broader approach to the question makes it possible to assign a new empirically valid probability to whether any other advanced technological civilizations have ever existed.-"And it shows that unless the odds of advanced life evolving on a habitable planet are astonishingly low, then human kind is not the universe's first technological, or advanced, civilization.-***-"'We've known for a long time approximately how many stars exist. We didn't know how many of those stars had planets that could potentially harbor life, how often life might evolve and lead to intelligent beings, and how long any civilizations might last before becoming extinct."-"'Thanks to NASA's Kepler satellite and other searches, we now know that roughly one-fifth of stars have planets in "habitable zones," where temperatures could support life as we know it. So one of the three big uncertainties has now been constrained."-"Frank said that the third big question—how long civilizations might survive—is still completely unknown. "The fact that humans have had rudimentary technology for roughly ten thousand years doesn't really tell us if other societies would last that long or perhaps much longer," he explained.-"But Frank and his coauthor, Woodruff Sullivan of the astronomy department and astrobiology program at the University of Washington, found they could eliminate that term altogether by simply expanding the question.-***-"Rather than guessing at the odds of advanced life developing, they calculate the odds against it occurring in order for humanity to be the only advanced civilization in the entire history of the observable universe. With that, Frank and Sullivan then calculated the line between a Universe where humanity has been the sole experiment in civilization and one where others have come before us.-***-"Using this approach, Frank and Sullivan calculate how unlikely advanced life must be if there has never been another example among the universe's ten billion trillion stars, or even among our own Milky Way galaxy's hundred billion.-"The result? By applying the new exoplanet data to the universe's 2 x 10 to the 22nd power stars, Frank and Sullivan find that human civilization is likely to be unique in the cosmos only if the odds of a civilization developing on a habitable planet are less than about one in 10 billion trillion, or one part in 10 to the 22th power.-***- "Their equation, A=Nast*fbt, describes A as the product of Nast - the number of habitable planets in a given volume of the Universe - multiplied by fbt - the likelihood of a technological species arising on one of these planets. The volume considered could be, for example, the entire Universe, or just our Galaxy.-***-"As Frank puts it "We don't even know if it's possible to have a high-tech civilization that lasts more than a few centuries." With Frank and Sullivan's new result, scientists can begin using everything they know about planets and climate to begin modeling the interactions of an energy-intensive species with their home world knowing that a large sample of such cases has already existed in the cosmos. "Our results imply that our evolution has not been unique and has probably happened many times before. The other cases are likely to include many energy intensive civilizations dealing with their feedbacks onto their planets as their civilizations grow. That means we can begin exploring the problem using simulations to get a sense of what leads to long lived civilizations and what doesn't.'"-Comment: Fun and games. How will religions react if there are other humans? Aftere all there is fine tuning!

Are We alone; fun and games

by dhw, Sunday, May 01, 2016, 19:06 (2911 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: The Drake equation is now being updated, since we now know how many stars have planets in this galaxy:-http://phys.org/news/2016-04-limits-uniqueness.html-QUOTE: "Are humans unique and alone in the vast universe? This question—summed up in the famous Drake equation—has for a half-century been one of the most intractable and uncertain in science. 
"But a new paper shows that the recent discoveries of exoplanets combined with a broader approach to the question makes it possible to assign a new empirically valid probability to whether any other advanced technological civilizations have ever existed.
"And it shows that unless the odds of advanced life evolving on a habitable planet are astonishingly low, then human kind is not the universe's first technological, or advanced, civilization".-David's comment: Fun and games. How will religions react if there are other humans? After all there is fine tuning!-I am delighted to announce the forthcoming publication of the dhw Research Institute's conclusions relating to Extraterrestrial Life and Its Relevance to God. The Institute's findings are guaranteed to revolutionize human thought on the subject, as they at last bring together all known information together with all possible theories arising from that information. Readers of this website will be the first to see the complete volume, which reads as follows:-Introduction: There are x billion habitable planets in the universe. This means that life is possible on x billion planets. Only one planet is known to contain life.-Chapter 1a: If Earth is the only planet containing life, it shows that the universe was fine tuned to contain life on Earth. Only God could fine tune the universe and create life.-Chapter 1b: If Earth is the only planet containing life, and if you have x billion habitable planets in the universe, it shows that life was bound to happen some time or the other, so who needs God?-Chapter 2a: If life exists on other planets, it shows that the universe was fine tuned to contain life on different planets. Only God could fine tune the universe and create life.-Chapter 2b: If life exists on other planets, it shows that if you have x billion habitable planets in the universe, life was bound to happen many times over, so who needs God?-Epilogue: If life exists or existed on other planets, it could be/have been all sorts of life, which shows that all sorts of life are/were possible.
 
Please send your recommendations to: The Nobel Prize Committee, Stockholm, Sweden.

Are We alone; fun and games

by David Turell @, Sunday, May 01, 2016, 20:57 (2911 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: Introduction: There are x billion habitable planets in the universe. This means that life is possible on x billion planets. Only one planet is known to contain life.
> 
> Chapter 1a: If Earth is the only planet containing life, it shows that the universe was fine tuned to contain life on Earth. Only God could fine tune the universe and create life.
> 
> Chapter 1b: If Earth is the only planet containing life, and if you have x billion habitable planets in the universe, it shows that life was bound to happen some time or the other, so who needs God?-It doesn't show anything of the sort. There is no requirement for life to start een when it is allowed by the universe. Wishful thinking.
> 
> dhw: Chapter 2a: If life exists on other planets, it shows that the universe was fine tuned to contain life on different planets. Only God could fine tune the universe and create life.
> 
> Chapter 2b: If life exists on other planets, it shows that if you have x billion habitable planets in the universe, life was bound to happen many times over, so who needs God?
> 
> Epilogue: If life exists or existed on other planets, it could be/have been all sorts of life, which shows that all sorts of life are/were possible.-Shows nothing of the sort. More wishful thinking. Nobel denied

Are We alone; habitable planets?

by David Turell @, Monday, May 02, 2016, 18:48 (2910 days ago) @ David Turell

Just because a planet is close to its sun does not make it habitable. It must be rocky and metallic. It must have an atmosphere. It must not get too much radiation from its star. this article is overly ecstatic and full of excuses in trying to overlook the problems with this discovery:-https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160502111427.htm-Astronomers have discovered three planets orbiting an ultracool dwarf star just 40 light-years from Earth. These worlds have sizes and temperatures similar to those of Venus and Earth and are the best targets found so far for the search for life outside the Solar System. They are the first planets ever discovered around such a tiny and dim star. -***-"Michaël Gillon, lead author of the paper presenting the discovery, explains the significance of the new findings: "Why are we trying to detect Earth-like planets around the smallest and coolest stars in the solar neighbourhood? The reason is simple: systems around these tiny stars are the only places where we can detect life on an Earth-sized exoplanet with our current technology. So if we want to find life elsewhere in the Universe, this is where we should start to look."-***-"Follow-up observations with larger telescopes, including the HAWK-I instrument on ESO's 8-metre Very Large Telescope in Chile, have shown that the planets orbiting TRAPPIST-1 have sizes very similar to that of Earth. Two of the planets have orbital periods of about 1.5 days and 2.4 days respectively, and the third planet has a less well determined period in the range 4.5 to 73 days.-"'With such short orbital periods, the planets are between 20 and 100 times closer to their star than the Earth to the Sun. The structure of this planetary system is much more similar in scale to the system of Jupiter's moons than to that of the Solar System," explains Michaël Gillon.-"Although they orbit very close to their host dwarf star, the inner two planets only receive four times and twice, respectively, the amount of radiation received by the Earth, because their star is much fainter than the Sun. That puts them closer to the star than the habitable zone for this system, although it is still possible that they possess habitable regions on their surfaces. The third, outer, planet's orbit is not yet well known, but it probably receives less radiation than the Earth does, but maybe still enough to lie within the habitable zone."-Comment: I guess it is good to keep looking, but it should be with reasoned thinking, not grantesmanship optimism.-Note this thoughtful comment from another source:-"From their observations, the scientists determined that all three planets are likely tidally locked, with permanent day and night sides. The two planets closest to the star may have day sides that are too hot, and night sides too cold, to host any life forms. However, there may be a "sweet spot" on the western side of both planets—a region that still receives daylight, but with relatively cool temperatures—that may be temperate enough to sustain conditions suitable for life."- Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-05-years-earth-planets-host-life.html#jCp

Are We alone: Paul Davies comments

by David Turell @, Monday, May 23, 2016, 23:19 (2889 days ago) @ David Turell

He points out the enormous odds against it:-http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/maybe-life-in-the-cosmos-is-rare-after-all/?WT.mc_id=SA_DD_20160523-"When I was a student in the 1960s almost all scientists believed we are alone in the universe. The search for intelligent life beyond Earth was ridiculed; one might as well have professed an interest in looking for fairies. The focus of skepticism concerned the origin of life, which was widely assumed to have been a chemical fluke of such incredibly low probability it would never have happened twice. “The origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle,” was the way Francis Crick described it, “so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.” Jacques Monod concurred; in his 1976 book Chance and Necessity he wrote, “Man knows at last that he is alone in the indifferent immensity of the universe, whence which he has emerged by chance.”-"Today the pendulum has swung decisively the other way. Many distinguished scientists proclaim that the universe is teeming with life, at least some of it intelligent. The biologist Christian de Duve went so far as to call life “a cosmic imperative.” Yet the science has hardly changed. We are almost as much in the dark today about the pathway from non-life to life as Darwin was when he wrote, “It is mere rubbish thinking at present of the origin of life; one might as well think of the origin of matter.”-***-"I am often asked how likely it is that we will find intelligent life beyond Earth. The question is meaningless. Because we don't know the process that transformed a mish-mash of chemicals into a living cell, with all its staggering complexity, it is impossible to calculate the probability that it will happen. You can't estimate the odds of an unknown process. -***-"Carl Sagan once remarked that the origin of life can't be that hard or it would not have popped up so quickly once Earth became hospitable. It's true that we can trace the presence of life on Earth back 3.5 billion years. But Sagan's argument ignores the fact that we are a product of the very terrestrial biology being studied. Unless life on Earth had started quickly, humans would not have evolved before the sun became too hot and fried our planet to a crisp. Because of this unavoidable selection bias, we can't draw any statistical significance from a sample of one.-***-"Another common argument is that the universe is so vast there just has to be life out there somewhere. But what does that statement mean? If we restrict attention to the observable universe there are probably 10^23 planets. Yes, that's a big number. But it is dwarfed by the odds against forming even simple organic molecules by random chance alone. If the pathway from chemistry to biology is long and complicated, it may well be that less than one in a trillion trillion planets ever spawns life. (my note: 10^24 planets is a trillion trillion)-"Affirmations that life is widespread are founded on a tacit assumption that biology is not the upshot of random chemical reactions, but the product of some sort of directional self-organization that favors the living state over others—a sort of life principle at work in nature. There may be such a principle, but if so we have found no evidence for it yet.-"Maybe we don't need to look far. If life really does pop up readily, as Sagan suggested, then it should have started many times on our home planet. If there were multiple origins of life on Earth, the microbial descendants of another genesis could be all around us, forming a sort of shadow biosphere. Nobody has seriously looked under our noses for life as we do not know it. It would take the discovery of just a single “alien” microbe to settle the matter."-Comment: Davies suggestion that we look for alien life here has been made before. To me Davies comment about the sun's age and the timing of the appearance of life before the sun blows up (and it will in about 5 billion years), is a very telling point and more evidence of fine tuning of a different type than the physical constants. Note his recognition that forming organic molecules is very difficult. I have included most of his essay. The only thing he and I don't agree upon is God.

Are We alone: Paul Davies comments

by dhw, Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 13:45 (2888 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: He points out the enormous odds against it:-http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/maybe-life-in-the-cosmos-is-rare-after-a...-I think he is pointing out that the odds are irrelevant. We can't know unless we actually find alien life.-QUOTE: "Maybe we don't need to look far. If life really does pop up readily, as Sagan suggested, then it should have started many times on our home planet. If there were multiple origins of life on Earth, the microbial descendants of another genesis could be all around us, forming a sort of shadow biosphere. Nobody has seriously looked under our noses for life as we do not know it. It would take the discovery of just a single “alien” microbe to settle the matter."-I don't quite follow this. How would we know that a microbe was “alien”? Scientists are discovering new microbial species all the time as they explore different environments.-David's comment: Davies suggestion that we look for alien life here has been made before. To me Davies comment about the sun's age and the timing of the appearance of life before the sun blows up (and it will in about 5 billion years), is a very telling point and more evidence of fine tuning of a different type than the physical constants. Note his recognition that forming organic molecules is very difficult. I have included most of his essay. The only thing he and I don't agree upon is God.-Whether we found alien life or not wouldn't make any difference to either side. Theists could claim that God naturally made more than one experiment, and atheists would continue to claim that life arose spontaneously.

Are We alone: Paul Davies comments

by David Turell @, Tuesday, May 24, 2016, 20:27 (2888 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: I think he is pointing out that the odds are irrelevant. We can't know unless we actually find alien life.-No I think he makes the odds relevant because he openly questions are we alone, with a clear suggestion we might be. There are two meanings to 'alien', see below-> dhw: How would we know that a microbe was “alien”? Scientists are discovering new microbial species all the time as they explore different environments.-Note two meanings to alien: 1) not from our group but the same as us; 2) totally differing life forms not following our biochemistry
> 
> dhw: Whether we found alien life or not wouldn't make any difference to either side. Theists could claim that God naturally made more than one experiment, and atheists would continue to claim that life arose spontaneously.- You miss a point: More than one colony of humans in the universe would take away from the specialness of this colony. Would Catholics accept that Jesus had several clones? Would the Jews like the fact that there are 'chosen' people all over the place? And so forth.

Are We alone: Paul Davies comments

by dhw, Wednesday, May 25, 2016, 13:04 (2887 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: He points out the enormous odds against it:-http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/maybe-life-in-the-cosmos-is-rare-after-a...-dhw: I think he is pointing out that the odds are irrelevant. We can't know unless we actually find alien life.
DAVID: No I think he makes the odds relevant because he openly questions are we alone, with a clear suggestion we might be. -He wrote: "I am often asked how likely it is that we will find intelligent life beyond Earth. The question is meaningless. Because we don't know the process that transformed a mish-mash of chemicals into a living cell, with all its staggering complexity, it is impossible to calculate the probability that it will happen. You can't estimate the odds of an unknown process.”-If you can't calculate the odds, the odds are irrelevant. -dhw: How would we know that a microbe was “alien”? Scientists are discovering new microbial species all the time as they explore different environments.-DAVID: Note two meanings to alien: 1) not from our group but the same as us; 2) totally differing life forms not following our biochemistry-Thank you for this clarification. He's presumably referring to 2), then. If it were 1), we would have no way of telling that they were “alien”.-dhw: Whether we found alien life or not wouldn't make any difference to either side. Theists could claim that God naturally made more than one experiment, and atheists would continue to claim that life arose spontaneously.-DAVID: You miss a point: More than one colony of humans in the universe would take away from the specialness of this colony. Would Catholics accept that Jesus had several clones? Would the Jews like the fact that there are 'chosen' people all over the place? And so forth.-Why would intelligent alien life have to be clones of ourselves, or of Jesus or the Jews? If Davies is talking about life forms not following our biochemistry, they could hardly be human. But even if there were humans on other planets with their own religions, the theists could still argue that God made them, and Catholics, Jews and Muslims could simply add Cosmists, Jupitists and Martianists to their respective lists of those who have got it wrong!

Are We alone: Paul Davies comments

by David Turell @, Thursday, May 26, 2016, 01:47 (2887 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: If you can't calculate the odds, the odds are irrelevant. - But he also implies that the arrival of life is totally a mystery and his book title "The Fifth Miracle" contributes to my point that he seriously considers we may well be alone.
> 
> dhw: Why would intelligent alien life have to be clones of ourselves, or of Jesus or the Jews? If Davies is talking about life forms not following our biochemistry, they could hardly be human. But even if there were humans on other planets with their own religions, the theists could still argue that God made them, and Catholics, Jews and Muslims could simply add Cosmists, Jupitists and Martianists to their respective lists of those who have got it wrong! - But religions really want the Earth to be the place of the Garden of Eden, special. Religions are too rigid to be as forgiving as you are.

Are We alone: Paul Davies comments

by dhw, Thursday, May 26, 2016, 17:21 (2886 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: If you can't calculate the odds, the odds are irrelevant. - DAVID: But he also implies that the arrival of life is totally a mystery and his book title "The Fifth Miracle" contributes to my point that he seriously considers we may well be alone. - No disagreement there. - dhw: Why would intelligent alien life have to be clones of ourselves, or of Jesus or the Jews? If Davies is talking about life forms not following our biochemistry, they could hardly be human. But even if there were humans on other planets with their own religions, the theists could still argue that God made them, and Catholics, Jews and Muslims could simply add Cosmists, Jupitists and Martianists to their respective lists of those who have got it wrong! - DAVID: But religions really want the Earth to be the place of the Garden of Eden, special. Religions are too rigid to be as forgiving as you are. - My point was that if alien life of whatever sort was found, both theists and atheists would find arguments enabling them to stick to their beliefs.

Are We alone: Paul Davies comments

by David Turell @, Thursday, May 26, 2016, 18:22 (2886 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: My point was that if alien life of whatever sort was found, both theists and atheists would find arguments enabling them to stick to their beliefs. - Point granted. Both theists and atheists are rigid enough to find excuses to cover their points of view..

Are We alone: Ethan Siegal comments

by David Turell @, Monday, February 06, 2017, 15:52 (2630 days ago) @ dhw

Siegel presents a very optimistic case that life could be all over the place:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/01/20/can-science-prove-the-existence-...

"We live in a particularly privileged place. We live on a planet that has all the right ingredients for life, including:

"We’re at the right distance from our Sun so that temperatures are conducive to life.
We have the right atmospheric pressure for liquid water at our surface.
We have the right ingredients — the right balance of heavy elements and organic molecules — for life to arise.

"We have the right amount of water so that our world has both oceans and continents.
And life started on our world very early, sustained itself for our planet’s entire history, and gave rise to us: sentient, self-aware creatures.

***

"The claim that's often made isn't merely that Earth is unlikely; it's that our planet, with the confluence of circumstances that gave rise to us, is statistically impossible, even given all the stars and galaxies in the Universe. The emergence of intelligent life is so outlandishly unexpected, given all the factors that needed to occur in just the right particular order, that our Universe must have been designed specifically to give rise to us. Otherwise, the argument goes, the odds of us coming to be would be so infinitesimally small that it’s unreasonable to believe it could have happened by chance.

"This is a very compelling argument for many people, but it’s important to ask ourselves three questions to make sure we’re approaching this honestly. We’ll go through them one at a time, but here are the three, so we know what we’re getting into.

"What are, scientifically, the conditions that we need for life to arise?
How rare or common are these conditions elsewhere in the Universe?
And finally, if we don’t find life in the places and under the conditions where we expect it, can that prove the existence of God?

(At this point he gives a very long discussion of each question, worth reading)

"In the professional opinion of practically all scientists who study the Universe, it is very likely that there is life on other worlds, and that there’s a very good chance — if we invest in looking for it — that we’ll be able to find the first biological signatures on other worlds within a single generation. Whether there’s intelligent life beyond Earth, or more specifically, intelligent life beyond Earth in our galaxy that’s still alive right now, is a more dubious proposition, but the outcome of this scientific question in no way favors or disfavors the existence of God, any more than the order of whether fish or birds evolved first on Earth favors or disfavors a deity’s existence.

"The truths of the Universe are written out there, on the Universe itself, and are accessible to us all through the process of inquiry. To allow an uncertain faith to stand in as an answer where scientific knowledge is required does us all a disservice; the illusion of knowledge — or reaching a conclusion before obtaining the evidence — is a poor substitute for what we might actually come to learn, if only we ask the right questions. Science can never prove or disprove the existence of God, but if we use our beliefs as an excuse to draw conclusions that scientifically, we’re not ready for, we run the grave risk of depriving ourselves of what we might have come to truly learn.

" I implore you: don’t let your faith, whatever it may be, close you off to the joys and wonders of the natural world. The joys of knowing — of figuring out the answers to questions for ourselves — is one that none of us should be cheated out of. May your faith, if you have one, only serve to enhance and enrich you, not take the wonder of science away!

Comment: He gives the impression that life might be everywhere, but humans are another issue. And that is a big jump, considering what we represent biologically.

Are We alone; habitable planets?

by David Turell @, Wednesday, March 22, 2017, 17:16 (2586 days ago) @ David Turell

More discussion and scientific reports on Trappist+1 and seven planets. Life unlikely but hope springs eternal:

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/trappist-1-hopes-for-life-dwindle?utm_source=Today+in+...

"Thus, only the middle planet remains a candidate for hosting life. It could maintain “at least some habitable surface”, Wolf notes, depending on the atmospheric nitrogen levels. If the planet is, in fact, covered in ocean, then “near present day Earth surface temperatures can be maintained”.

"However, even one habitable planet may turn out to be a forlorn hope. Ultracool dwarf stars, Wolf says, may take as long as one billion years to settle into a stable system, during which orbiting planets are exposed to intense solar radiation, producing extreme greenhouse conditions. If this was the case with Trappist-1, then for the middle planet to retain abundant water today it would have to originally held seven times the ocean volume of Earth.

***

"Lingham and Loeb contend that because the seven planets in Trappist-1 are very close together – the distance between adjacent ones being far less than the distance between Earth and Mars – then microbial panspermia is likely to be robust.

“'By drawing upon the analogy with the theory of island biogeography, we argued that a large number of species could have ‘immigrated’ from one planet to another, thereby increasing the latter’s biodiversity,” they write.

“'As known from studies on Earth, a higher biodiversity is correlated with greater stability, which bodes well for the multiple members of the Trappist-1 system.'”

Comment: I have idea no what they are smoking. This is a dwarf low heat star with close planets that are probably tidally locked. Anything to find life elsewhere. None so far.

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