Natural Selection (Evolution)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Friday, August 12, 2011, 12:46 (4662 days ago) @ dhw
edited by unknown, Friday, August 12, 2011, 13:05

PART ONE
> Matt, I have split this post into two, but please read both before considering a response, as they are interlinked. I would greatly welcome comments from others on this subject, as evolution is such a key topic for all of us.
> 
> Matt's definition of NS is: "the process by which an organism undergoes environmental pressure and responds to that pressure in its genotype". He has been taught that NS is "the ENTIRE process", which I take to mean the entire process of evolution. ...
> -I can see why you're having some issues with me here. Evolution by natural selection could be naively described in an equation that I hope won't drive you batty: 
Natural Selection = ((random mutations + epigenetics ) * selection pressure) -Natural Selection is the combined act of random mutations and epigentics, acted upon by pressure of selection. Selection can't happen without pressure.-But this is an iterative process... and my understanding of iterations is driven by a concept in mathematics called recursion: the results of the current step rely upon the results of ALL the prior steps. I can't do subscripting here, so take (something)1 to mean "generation" and not something * 1.-The term f(something) means that we're talking about a function whose right hand side (RHS) is the function's description.-[So the old f(x) = x^2 means "square anything you put in x."-I think we can agree that evolution is a function of generations, yes? Please note here, in the following description that it is possible to have multiple selection events each generation... I'm just trying to keep this simple.]-generation = g.-[evolution](g) = (Natural Selection)Total -Where-(Natural Selection)Total = 
(total selection events)g1 [1st individual]
(total selection events)g2 + (total selection events)g1 [2nd individual]
(total selection events)g3 + (total selection events)g2 + (total selection events)g1 [3rd individual]
... ad infinitum-This is the most intuitive stage. An organism is a function of ALL selection events in its history, known and unknown. -...
continued:-selection event = (random mutations + epigenetics ) * selection pressure-So if we take any number "n" and evaluate the function evolution(n)-((random mutations + epigenetics ) * selection pressure)1 + 
((random mutations + epigenetics ) * selection pressure)2 +
((random mutations + epigenetics ) * selection pressure)3 +
...
((random mutations + epigenetics ) * selection pressure)n-Where "n" is the original number of events you're studying. -Any given organism is defined as a collection of selection events: selection pressure can be food, predation, disease, behavior, etc. So when I talked about evolution with my professors, we talked about the state of a member in a particular lineage, and the collected changes that caused the organism to be in its current state. And this could get really hairy, as "selection pressure" could be caused BY a random mutation. But I only tell you that to give you an idea of how fast this can get really hairy, if you're not already losing any... -You ask if I equate evolution with Natural Selection. I took a number of days to meditate on that question. (see above) My only response, from what I've learned, combined with what I formulated above, I do not see how you can separate them. You made me think very hard about how these different forces operate, and I have formulated... as concisely as possible how the process of evolution works from the perspective of working scientists. -We may have to just part on disagreement if this doesn't work... I'm at a loss to describe this in any other way... Evolution is a function of natural selection. -...
> Are you, then, arguing that evolution IS epigenetics IS Natural Selection?-See above... should be clear as mud... (or not, I hope...)-Our key disagreement here is in the different uses of Natural Selection by scientists vs. laypeople.-[EDITED] Some minor edits to give more (I hope) clarity...)

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