(Balance!) Consciousness, identity, OBEs... (Identity)

by dhw, Monday, May 09, 2011, 13:05 (4734 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Here is another article that seems to show chimp awareness, but true self-awareness, in an intellectual way, no way!:-http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-chimps-self-aware.html-Yet again, my thanks to David for this constant stream of fascinating articles.-I wonder to what extent even this subject is distorted by our use of language. What is the borderline between self-awareness and "true" self-awareness? In what way is self-awareness different from "intellectual" self-awareness? An experiment which shows that chimps recognize themselves in the mirror and perform actions based on that self-recognition is surely enough to prove that they are aware of their own identity as being separate from that of others. We know that animals very different from ourselves reason, communicate, and are sentient. The question is therefore not whether but to what degree they are self-aware, and to what degree they can communicate, reason, feel. You can just as easily ask that question about children: to what degree is a baby, a toddler, an infant, a child "truly" self-aware etc.? -Underlying David's scepticism (please correct me if I'm wrong) is the belief that the human mind is different in kind from that of other animals, and this in turn ties in with his belief that the history of life from the beginning was geared to God's intention to produce humans. We've already argued the toss over this directionality of evolution, but another approach is to say that humans are descended from other forms of life, and it is only natural that we should therefore have inherited certain attributes. The fact that we have developed them to such a vast degree ... to the extent of investigating and questioning all aspects of existence, creating technologies even beyond the wildest dreams of our predecessors, refining our aesthetic sense through art, music and literature ... should not make us lose sight of the common ground we have with other animals. Just as we respect our babies, not knowing the exact degree of their self-awareness, sentience etc., so too should we respect other forms of life, and not assume that lesser awareness is not "true" awareness.-I'm sure David does have just such respect. These are general comments which are in no way to be taken personally!