Cellular intelligence: (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, January 14, 2022, 15:01 (842 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: None of this convinces me your God is not part human.

dhw: “Part human” is a strange way of putting it. I am proposing, just as you once did, that your God has thought patterns and emotions and logic similar to ours, and that we mimic him in certain ways. Not surprising, as it seems highly unlikely that we would be the inventors of thought patterns, emotions etc. that were unknown to an all-knowing God.

I'm in full agreement with your statement about God's thoughts and ours. It is your God's decisions and actions that are the present subject. Experimenting, Free-for-all evolution, needing entertainment area all signs of a weak humanlike form of a God.

xxxx

DAVID: Same illogical complaint.

dhw: Having ignored it yet again, perhaps you will now once and for all explain why a God with the single “goal” of designing humans plus their food would first of all design countless life forms and foods that had no connection with his single goal.

A God who chooses to create all of reality in stepwise fashion forms an evolutionary process as we view it. Endlessly I repeat: the universe evolved, the Earth evolved, life evolved. God's choice of method is obvious in the history. All steps are necessarily related, the multibranched bush of life, as you have agreed is the food for all of life. Humans are God's desired endpoint, the most complicated of all His steps.

Antibiotic resistance
DAVID: If only one system would work, He had to use it. Why not respond to my theory directly instead of inventing your weak form of God making life.

dhw: Once again: your all-powerful God is forced to design a system containing errors he did not want and could not correct. And yet you agreed this was the system he wanted! What is weak about a God who designs precisely the system he wants, as opposed to being forced to design a system containing errors he doesn’t want?

Still ignoring my major point/theory: God used the only system that would work and does. He had to use it. Your usual dodge. An all-powerful, all-knowing God knows what can be done and does it. Your humanized God is now seems more powerful than mine!! He purposely creates a messy system, so He is not in full control.

Biofilms

DAVID: You have forgotten how immunity works. B and T cells automatically identify non-self, add an antidote and a new antibody is automatically added to the library.

dhw: You have forgotten that it is only your belief that these processes occur automatically. You have agreed over and over again that the cells appear to be intelligent, and once you wrote that “those molecules literally act as if they have minds of their own”. How do you know they don’t? And still I wait for you to add attributes to my list of those that convince you humans ARE autonomously intelligent.

We both know humans are autonomously intelligent and at least I accept free will without question. Note the 'molecules' ACT AS IF. My statement does not say they are intelligent. You constantly twist statements..

Mutations random or not
QUOTE: "The findings add a surprising twist to Charles Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection because it reveals that the plant has evolved to protect its genes from mutation to ensure survival".

DAVID: […] non-random mutation is anti-Darwin and consistent with ID.

dhw: It is also consistent with cellular intelligence. It is worth noting that the motivation for the changes is survival, which is pro-Darwin.

DAVID: Saving Darwin as usual. Survival as a driving force for speciation is unproven theory.

dhw: I was merely pointing out that the quote took the theory for granted, as do many people since it is such an obvious motive for both adaptation and speciation.

So you work at the level of 'taking for granted' to save Darwin's survival theory? Or do you recognize the problem with the theory?