Categories or Degrees of Existence (Agnosticism)

by Tim , Monday, July 19, 2010, 19:48 (5028 days ago) @ dhw


I copied out some of your paragraphs to me, so I can work with them.-"The materialist argument seems to me deliberately to minimize the problem ... start with something simple, and evolution will inevitably lead to greater complexity. Wrong, wrong, wrong. The cell is NOT simple. We start with something so complex that it is able not only to reproduce but also, ultimately, to vary itself and adapt to changing conditions. And it is THIS initial mechanism (what you call "the beginnings of it") that we are expected to believe somehow managed to assemble itself spontaneously."-I very often ponder this same problem while staring at bug so tiny that I had to go get a magnifying glass just to see it at all. There it is, walking around down there, with a life all its own, utterly unaware of anything else that doesn't having any meaning to it, nor could it conceive of all of us, walking around, utterly unaware of its existence. A theist would then, naturally, follow-out that example as proof that G/god MUST exist, but that we are like that bug, unable to fathom Him. One bug saying to another, "YES there are humans!", while the others laugh at him, saying, "You ever SEE any of these humans?!" "No, but sometimes I get these feelings like I'm being WATCHED from 'out there, somewhere...'"-Also, you mentioned that materialists deliberately minimize this problem. I ardently agree with this, but with the additional statement that "This is just what we DO." I believe this is how G/god/s themselves evolved as they wove themselves into and throughout human social patterns of thought and behavior. Ever notice how, in every culture I have heard of, the religiosity moved from many gods, to a few important ones, and then, after thousands of years, merged into the one god most of us have today? This is minimalization, which is simply another version of "efficiency" of one's belief structure. Humans are superbly adept at finding simpler ways of doing things. In life, its just a way of making work easier and faster; In beliefs, its a way of reducing complexity, and directing ones efforts at obedience and reverence much simpler. That's why we have nicknames, abbreviations, acronyms, better and better tools and instruments, etc. So, when dealing with something as incomprehensively complex as Life, we just call it "Survival of the Fittest", and be on our merry way. That's another aspect of Functional Reality, especially with regard to capitalism, where, if one's company is not 'fit', it will be gobbled up by some fitter predator, vis., Walmart. In religion/s, whomever has the most efficient god, wins (minus the fear factor, present in Islam - I wonder how many "adherents" would pray five times a day without the peer pressure, or fear of their authority structure?!).-Re: Your philosophical (agnostic) consternation, given how difficult this way is. I agree, it is (or was, for me). I was driving myself MAD with all these imponderables. I vowed to devise a way for me to, basically, chill out, and to find some kind of solace in my emotional stultification. I did find a way out. I worked on what was truly essential and true in life, and tossed out the rest as being various degrees of irrelevance. I did this so that I could focus better in my life, and it has helped me. It also accidentally-on-purpose became the perfect acronym. I have, since ten years ago, mainly focused on six primary thought/behavior factors. These are: Science, Organization, Logic, Appreciation, Communication, and Edification (SOLACE). Every time I get too wound-up, I just say "SOLACE" to myself, and everything gets itself automatically "filed" into the "I'll get to that later. Right now, I have something of higher priority in mind."-Is that cool, or what?-Now, as to whether or not the Universe is "intelligent" (which we have not yet defined, BTW), I already know that it IS, but, like the bug I mentioned, is, as yet, beyond my ken, and so I just "play the ball where it lies" every day. It turns out to be a zen thing, really, as you just function within the on-going time-periods, as they pass by each day, while secretly hoping that we'll someday figure it out. Meanwhile, I just have to do my life the best I can figure it out.-However, I will state now, and I'm pretty sure we agree, that the God of the religions we have now is NOT the God of "how things actually are". Christians want us all to have a personal relationships with God; Jews just want us to read the Torah; Muslims, the Koran, etc., but, I get a whole different feel/think for the God thing. No time for that now, but some other time.-My neighbor's cow is out, and walking down the road. Have to get her back.-Hope to hear from you.-t