Human evolution; sticks and stones (Introduction)

by David Turell , Monday, January 15, 2018, 14:33 (2291 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: No,no,no! There is an implied thought consistent with my unchanging thinking I left out in sloppy writing a quick response: "There is no question his brain [has been previously] enlarged with all the muscle movement, etc.... [Only a larger brain could permit all this new activity]." I should spend more time mapping out responses.

dhw: You said there was no brain change when our hominid had the idea. So what happened? In between his having the idea and his implementing the idea, God nipped in to enlarge the brain (or preprogrammed the first cells to pass on instructions that the brain should expand itself as soon as the soul came up with the idea). And only after the expansion did the hominid learn how to knapp flint, attach point to rod, throw etc. His brain therefore didn’t enlarge WITH the muscle movement, coordination etc., it had already enlarged BEFORE the muscle movement etc. Ah well, at least you have the concept (no brain change) preceding the enlargement, which has also been a bone of contention between us. You just reject the possibility that all these new actions might have CAUSED the enlargement.

That has been my point all along. Enlargement precedes new concepts and implementations.

DAVID: What it proves is the new size is not used in any useful way for a gap in time. I think that happened with habilis and erectus also, Evolution builds on repeated patterns.

dhw: So the statement that the new size is not used usefully for a gap in time proves that the new size is not used usefully for a gap in time. When I tell you that pre-sapiens also had “gaps”, you tell me there are repeated patterns in evolution. Yes indeed. Species arrive, hang around for yonks without much progress, and in most cases disappear. According to you, however, it's part of the pattern for ALL species of hominid, hominin, homo to have a "gap", but "logically" sapiens should NOT have had a gap! Confusion reigns supreme.

I don't understand your confusion. Of course sapiens had a gap of 270,000=/- years before massive use of the brain.

dhw: Your hypothesis is that an unknown power named God preprogrammed each expansion or popped down to Earth to engineer them all. My hypothesis is that each expansion was the result of new ideas requiring new abilities. Another hypothesis is that each expansion resulted from random mutations. I don’t know why you consider the first of these to be any less airy-fairy than the second and third.

DAVID: I am stuck with larger brains producing improved artifacts. You want push and I see pull with God's action.

dhw: We are both “stuck” with the fact that larger brains coincided with improved artefacts. You now say (above) the soul had the idea and then God enlarged the brain so it could learn to implement the idea.

I said nothing of the sort. The soul can only create more complex ideas by working with a more complex brain. The larger more complex brain appears and only then can the soul develop and implement complex ideas. A soul does not come with a preconceived agenda of ideas and concepts. Size first, use second as shown by the artifacts.

dhw: This apparently is less airy-fairy than my proposal (dualistic version, but eventually I will formulate a materialistic version) that the soul had the idea, and the effort to implement the idea caused the brain to expand, as in the process you originally described with such perfect logic.

Size first, use second is supported by the timing of artifacts appearance. You want push and I see pull.