Dualism versus materialism (Identity)

by David Turell @, Thursday, June 29, 2017, 18:18 (53 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Twisting my concept again! The brain operates using my consciousness during life, releases it at death where consciousness continues to operate on its own. Example: In NDE's when the brain revives it learns what the NDE contained as experiences from the returning consciousness.

dhw: Yes, consciousness informs the brain, which receives the information. How is this an example of the brain using your consciousness? I have explained what I mean by “use”: consciousness uses the brain in order to give material expression or implementation to the ideas it (consciousness) provides.

Not the way I view it as stated above. I'll repeat: I still view consciousness as the software the brain uses, a mechanism which is immaterial. The brain/consciousness mechanism starts as a blank slate in my infancy and develops all of its attributes and content as I develop and learn how to use it. Yes I am my consciousness using my brain, at my direction. I am in control of my consciousness. Does your 'use' mean the same?


dhw: Here you are presenting a timetable plus the fact that consciousness and brain develop simultaneously, but you do not explain the nature of the interaction. I did (again adopting the dualist approach), when we dealt with the newborn in an exchange that ended on 23 June, as follows:
DAVID: The newborn creates the shapes and forms that make his consciousness unique. He does this by operating on his consciousness through his brain.

You are asking a question about 'interaction;' I cannot answer. I can only state that the brain receives and uses the mechanism of consciousness, to create the content of my consciousness. Consciousness provides the mechanism and the storage platform

DAVID: I create my own ideations using my material brain to employ my immaterial consciousness. A seamless arrangement.

dhw: “I” is your immaterial conscious self. "Employ" is a synonym of "use". So your immaterial conscious self creates its ideas by using your material brain to use your immaterial conscious self. Your seamless arrangement is one tangled knot as you struggle to avoid giving me a direct answer to a straightforward question.

Perhaps I don't understand your question. My concept is quite clear to me, but perhaps the details ( which don't exist) are what you want.


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