Innovation and Speciation:baleen whale feeding (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, June 24, 2017, 18:58 (2497 days ago) @ dhw

The balance of nature means nothing more than life continuing, no matter what organisms exist at the time. In respect of the eight or so stages, you wrote (13 June) “If it’s God's method it does not have to make sense. The whales present evidence that the simplest path is not always used, for reasons not clear to me, or you.” That’s the point of view I remember.

But without the balance supplying energy, life cannot continue. And yes whales are evidence a rough path is sometimes used.
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DAVID: I'm not limiting Him. The 3.8 billion years of programming from the beginning might be the correct interpretation and that is not a limit.

dhw: You have suddenly dismissed your own dabbling alternative to preprogramming because you say major changes require advanced planning. If you are not limiting God’s powers, what stops him from intervening and making major changes IN RESPONSE to environmental changes? Might not responsive divine dabbling be the correct interpretation, with no need for advanced planning?

Yes responsive dabbling is a possible approach.

dhw: Human free will is an example of your belief that God ceded control. Your dogmatic statement that he maintains control over evolution has no more authority than the proposal that he set the whole process in motion and then sat back to watch what organisms would do with the autonomy he gave them.

Free will is the only direct evidence of God ceding control and only inin the mental area of human life, not the physical. My faith can be dogmatic about the need for a planning mind, and not under your suppositions.

DAVID: Conscious organisms willing themselves into consciousness. They cannot even imagine that consciousness exists!

dhw: As usual, you are now trying to equate consciousness with human self-awareness in order to ridicule the idea. And the concept of cellular intelligence does not mean that cells/cell communities will themselves into consciousness. We do not know the source of ANY level of consciousness, but God is one possibility.

Can you mention other sources of consciousness? Nagel says unless we start considering teleology, our understandings will not advance.