Quotation from Darwin (Evolution)

by George Jelliss , Crewe, Tuesday, April 01, 2008, 20:20 (5861 days ago) @ dhw

I responded to the last part of the first paragraph of dhw's post by opening a "Definitions" section, but it seems he really wanted a reply to his criticisms of Richard Dawkins, so I will attempt a defence here. - dhw considered that Dawkins's preference for quoting from the first edition of "Origins" (which did not include the phrase 'by the Creator' after the word 'breathed') was "symptomatic of the way Dawkins and his ilk distort arguments and mislead people (or perhaps even themselves) into thinking that their beliefs are backed by science." - dhw: First, Darwinism. In an interview, Dawkins said specifically: "I'm a Darwinist. I believe the only alternatives are Lamarckism or God...Life in the universe is either Darwinian or something else not yet thought of." (The latter clearly rules out God or any other sort of designer.) Darwin said one "can be an ardent Theist and an evolutionist." So if Dawkins is a Darwinist, what was Darwin? - I don't know the full context in which Dawkins was speaking, and there is an ellipsis in the quote. However it seems to me that Dawkins is here just using the word Darwinism in its standard dictionary definition "the theory of the origin of animal and plant species by evolution through a process of natural selection" (Collins Dictionary) which does not include any mention of God. If dhw thinks "Darwinism" should be redefined to bring in God I think he has an uphill task. - dhw: Secondly, according to Dawkins, natural selection "explains the whole of life" (p. 116, The God Delusion). And: "Design is not the only alternative to chance. Natural selection is a better alternative" (p. 121). Does it? And is it? Does natural selection explain the origin of life or of the mechanisms that gave rise to heredity, new organs, adaptation etc., and doesn't natural selection depend on random (i.e. chance) mutations? Contrast Darwin: "How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself originated." - These quotes from Dawkins come in a section headed "Natural selection as a consciousness-raiser", so he is talking about evolution of species, not about the origin of life, abiogensis. Also he is arguing against those creationists who keep saying that evolution is solely a matter of chance and ignore or fail to understand the power of natural selection. - dhw: Darwin, evolution, natural selection and atheism have been rolled up into a single ball, inscribed with its maker's logo: DAWKINSIAN SCIENCE. Alternative views of science, including Darwin's own, are excluded. - Dawkins's book "The God Delusion" is specifically devoted to the question of whether evolution by natural selection is compatible with God-belief. Part of his argument is that complexity can only appear by evolution, and so if a God existed prior to the origin of life, it must have been the product of prior evolution, thus we get an endless regression. - dhw: The different strands need to be separated: Darwin ... sorry if this is getting repetitive ... was an agnostic, natural selection is only one element of evolution, evolution itself does not provide scientific evidence either for or against God. - The compatibility of evolution with religious beliefs is indeed argued by other people, Ken Miller, Francis Collins, Polkinghorne, etc. But the contrary thesis is the whole point of Dawkins's book. - dhw: and the choice remains: either you believe in chance, you believe in design, or you admit you don't know. - Here you are sounding like a creationist again. Chance is a factor in the theory, it produces the variation upon which natural selection acts.