The biochemistry of cell communication (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, September 09, 2016, 13:12 (2778 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I couldn't agree more that God may have given organisms the ability to 'work it out for themselves'. I would just like proof that such a mechanism exists. Until then pre-planning or dabble.
dhw: …That means that cells/cell communities may be intelligent after all. Hallelujah! I'd better frame this post.
DAVID: You are framing a hollow comment. I've not changed at all. If organism can work things out it will be by God's guidance thru a mechanism He has given them, that is intelligent information which makes it look like they are actually intelligent of their own accord. -If you are guided, you do not work things out for yourself. Divine guidance can only take the form of preplanning or dabbling. So apparently your statement means you agree that God may have given organisms the ability to be guided by preplanning or dabbling, but until that is proven, they are guided by preplanning or dabbling. When you agreed with me, I think you knew just I meant by “work it out for themselves”!-Xxxx-Dhw: Developing immunity is just as much a part of an organism's method of coping with the environment as developing new means of locomotion, of breathing, of working out defensive strategies etc.
DAVID: With the devil's immunity issue you still don't follow. Perhaps I'm not explaining it well. Two partially immune parents on that end of the bell curve will impart to some of their kids a slightly better immunity. Thus is several generations really immune kids appear. No luck, no ingenuity, just the natural variation of organisms allowing for this result under selection pressure, remember, as the article says.-I follow, but your bell curve does not explain this improvement. Why SHOULD partially immune (whatever that entails) parents impart a better immunity? Why don't they just pass on their non-immune “parts” so the next generation dies (as obviously happens when entire species are wiped out within generations)? Why SHOULD immunity be perfected? You are reverting to the same use of “natural” that materialists sometimes use to gloss over the complexities of biological processes. But you have suggested it is all part of God's planned “variability”, on which I commented: “If your God planned “variability” in the evolutionary process, doesn't that suggest that he gave cell communities the ability to work it out for themselves rather than merely obeying inbuilt instructions either to die, to be lucky enough to have partial immunity, or to develop full immunity?” Perhaps you might answer?
 
xxx-dhw: So do you believe that after your bodily death your brainless soul will retain your intelligence, memories etc. or not?
DAVID: My consciousness stays intact and carries intelligence and memories, etc.

dhw: Thank you. That means intelligence and memory are independent of the brain, and therefore it cannot be argued that brainless organisms are incapable of being intelligent.
DAVID: Remember I'm a dualist who believes that a brain is necessary as a receiver for conscious intelligence. Brainless organisms have no chance of having their own intelligence. They operate under intelligent instructions.-If conscious intelligence is not engendered by the brain, and if a brainless organism can receive and implement instructions, there is no reason why those instructions should not be issued by a similar conscious intelligence not engendered by a brain. Merely repeating your beliefs does not remove their inconsistency.