Genome complexity: mechanism stopped evolving (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, May 14, 2016, 10:47 (2898 days ago) @ David Turell

Bbella: If eternal conscious energy was first (in the beginning), from what could consciousness make forms that are unconscious?
David: Why couldn't a conscious mind invent simpler forms with no consciousness?

BBella: Out of what? Nothing?
DAVID: An existing conscious energy is not nothing. It has always existed in my view and can separate off simpler forms that are not conscious. -Like BBella, I don't understand how conscious energy can be the only thing in existence and yet separate its own simpler unconscious forms. You now have a God who is part conscious and part unconscious.-DAVID: The universe appears to have been created. It is not conscious, except through us. We have been developed from an inorganic universe, all controlled by the universal mind which manages all development.-So your universal mind is separate from the unconscious inorganic universe, which it created out of nothing but its consciousness. As a panentheist, you believe this conscious mind is within AND without BBella's ALL THAT IS. So God is/is not within/separate from the inorganic universe, and is/is not conscious/unconscious. I find this a bit confusing. Perhaps theistic panpsychism will play some role in your thinking, but I'll leave you to sort out the convolutions!-dhw: A God who is hidden and has no attributes or intentions might just as well not be there, so again, why is faith an “obvious requirement”? Faith in what, and requirement for what?
DAVID: Faith is accepting that God exists and created all of reality. That is obvious. Why are you questioning it? His attributes and intentions are implied and open to human discussion. That is why there are 6,000 religions.-As I suggested earlier, then, God just created us to see if we would believe in him or not. So what was this relationship he wanted with us? And you still haven't explained what this belief in his existence and creativity is an obvious requirement for.-dhw: So faith is required if one is to dismiss all other solutions. 
DAVID: Now you understand! A breakthrough! You of no faith flounder. -We only flounder when we see theists and atheists kidding themselves that reason, science and common sense are on their side, when we ourselves are painfully aware - as you now acknowledge so triumphantly - that reason, science and common sense are on nobody's side, and to be a theist or an atheist you must rely on irrational, non-scientific, non-commonsensical faith. Well, this acknowledgement is indeed a breakthrough!