Identity (Identity)

by dhw, Friday, September 04, 2009, 08:20 (5347 days ago) @ George Jelliss

George is finding it increasingly difficult to follow this forum, and I must confess I'm finding it increasingly difficult to follow George's replies, because they do not relate to my questions! For instance:-1) dhw: HOW do my atoms change their own connections?
George: The connections are changed by our experiences.
Your answer tells me WHAT changes the connections. I do not understand HOW the fact that I have an experience enables my atoms to change their connections. The atoms are physical. I might be a miser who sees the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future, and realizes that meanness doesn't bring happiness. How will this alter the physical connections between my atoms?-2) dhw: HOW do my atoms give "me" this control?
George: You are the history of your experiences.
Your answer does not tell me how my physical atoms create control over the way in which my physical atoms connect themselves.-In all your answers, there is a dimension missing: namely, the link between the activities of the physical atoms and the (for want of a better word) abstract identity. You seem to take the latter for granted. When I asked, "Do "I" have control over this process?" [i.e. the atoms changing their own connections], you answered: "Yes, you can seek out experiences, and you can associate different thoughts." But my basic questions are: what constitutes this "you" and how, physically, does it control and change itself? According to your answer to 2), the history of my experiences seeks out experiences and associates different thoughts, which doesn't help much.-As I see it, my identity is composed of my thoughts, attitudes, emotions, imagination, memories etc., some of which are involuntary (out of my control) and some of which are deliberate. All of them are encompassed within my mind. If my mind is the "activity of the brain", which means the activity set in motion by my physical atoms, I want to know what causes the involuntary activities (e.g. a new idea), what enables me to guide the deliberate ones (i.e. what actually endows me with consciousness and will), and what translates the "electrochemical connections" into thoughts, attitudes etc. -The materialist view is that there has to be a physical explanation, but nobody knows it (yet). The non-materialist view is that we have a non-physical identity, which some call the soul and some say is part of a universal intelligence. There is no evidence for this. So there we have two theories, neither of which has any known basis. You ask, "If there is no evidence for such an entity [universal intelligence], why do you bother giving it credence?" I don't. Nor do I give credence to the materialist theory. Not believing is one side of agnosticism. The other side is not disbelieving.-David apologizes for jumping into this conversation. I wish more people would do so. None of these discussions are private, and since George and I are having such difficulty communicating, it would be of great help to have some more opinions.