The immensity of the universe (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell , Saturday, September 19, 2015, 14:41 (3140 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Apparently it is a physical requirement to form a galaxy, nothing more. The universe has a series of physical requirements for its evolution.
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> dhw: So your God was hamstrung by the physical requirements of the universe he is supposed to have created?-This is one of the theories that have been presented. God appears to have evolved the universe to its current state and that state allowed the appearance of Earth as a home for humans. Is that the only possibility? No, but it fits what we observe if one accepts the idea that there is a theistic mind running all of this.-> DAVID: Not so fast. You may see purposelessness, I don't. My concept allows for more than one trial at humans. This bunch is far from perfect. He could be trying for that. 
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> dhw: So does he or doesn't he plan and control the environment?-See my entry of today as to how the fossil story is so confusing and convoluted. As for the environment, I doubt He takes control of day to day thunderstorms or ice ages. These are all part of an evolving Earth.-> DAVID: Ah, you are critical of my God when the setup and its evolution could be perfect for his purpose. You don't understand it, but it works. Why can't you accept that?
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> dhw: Carts before horses. If your God doesn't control the environment, he leaves the “development” of the right conditions to chance. An atheist would also say it all happened by chance, and you don't understand it, but it works, so why can't you accept that?-Again, look at all the attempts to create H. sapiens. God obviously uses an evolutionary process, not a direct creation of a species and a variable environment fosters different adaptations leading to different results. I don't believe in instant creationism.
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> DAVID: If highly unlikely, and you accept cause and effect, how do you explain us? I see only chance as a fall back position.
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> dhw: Now we have left the problem of the vast, seemingly impersonal universe and have come back to the origin of life, where you feel you are on safer ground. Yes, eventually chance is the fall back position, though my panpsychist variation of billions of individual intelligences remains an alternative to your single supercolossal, universe-embracing mind. -No, I was referring only to the chance creation of this life-supporting universe. Presents you with the same problem.
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> dhw: If you could find an "obvious" link between our existence and the billions of galaxies and zillions of stars that came and went before us and will come and go after us, it might help me see the - apparently dwindling - light. -I have to go back to what is admittedly an argument from incredulity: the stupendous odds against the fact that you and I are debating the issue through amazing electronics invented by human brains, on a rocky planet that had no reason to spawn us. And God may wish to have several attempts at beings that recognize Him in this universe, before He starts another universe. I think that is what an eternal mind would do.