Cell Memories (Identity)

by dhw, Thursday, August 07, 2014, 22:31 (3542 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: And I keep telling ou that cells cannot plan such intricacies, unless you can convince me by describing the method the cells use to plan it out. Using the word intelligence over and over agin gets us nowhere except telling me that magically a fuzzy concept of intelligence in cells can produce complex innovation-You can't describe the method your God uses to plan it out. Using the word God over and over again gets us nowhere except telling us that magically a fuzzy concept of a universal intelligence can produce complex innovation.-DAVID: What your theory forgets is the Cambrian Explosion: whole organisms with complex organ systems appear from no precursors. [...] No itty-bitty here, which your 'cells theory' requires.-You raised the same objection in your post of 31 July at 22.53, and I answered it on 1 August at 17.45. Further to what I wrote there, the great advantage of this hypothesis is precisely the fact that deliberate invention by communities of intelligent beings would NOT be itty-bitty, except that it might well require experimentation (with many organisms dying). I am using the same argument as you: the explosion can be explained by intelligent design - in this case, though, the intelligence is that of the cells. -dhw: However, regarding various hypotheses as a possibility is a good agnostic position. I do wish you'd also consider possible the hypothesis that your God invented an intelligence that could take its own decisions. (Oops, of course you do - but despite Shapiro & Co. you insist that only humans and to a lesser degree some other animals can do that. The rest are automata.)
DAVID: It's not just decisions, it is planning and pre-planning, remember! Simple decision -making does not create overall plans unless you are an architect. Oops, you want cells to do complex decision-making, I forgot.-I took a short cut. For cells to be inventive they would need to be “sentient, subjective, cognitive, communicative and intelligent”, all of which qualities our researchers say they have. I have added decision-making to Shapiro's list.
 
DAVID: [...] That is exactly why I prefer theistic evolution. It fills all the holes and confusion for me, although I don't know how HE did it. And I think He is challenging us to figure it out.-You cannot fill “all the holes” by saying “God did it” though you still don't know how! Once you accept the theory of common descent, “how” is the biggest of the evolutionary holes!