God and Reality (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Thursday, June 20, 2013, 18:52 (3956 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: If first cause conscious energy (FCEE) is eternal, and it must be, then it has created other universes in the past, for our current evidence is that FCCE makes universes, and more than likely human beings. This is the only scenario we know. -dhw: ...why shouldn't atheists also contemplate the possibility that eternal first-cause unconscious energy was active before the Big Bang, producing an infinite number of universes? Then the odds do indeed shorten. -DAVID: Thank goodness you used the word speculation. 10^500 universes is a mathematical speculation based on unproved math excursions into the never never land of atheistic contortions to avoid our designer universe and its implications of a designer. The 10^500 argument works only if there is a smidgen of proof. Just where is that smidgen???-So if an atheist thinks there must be other universes, it's an excuse to avoid the designer theory, but as a theist you think there must be other universes. This doesn't strike you as illogical? As for the silly mathematical figures, they're as unprovable as the odds calculated against chance creating life when we have no idea how many throws of the dice there might have been in the course of eternity and throughout infinity. Nor do we have any idea how many forms of life there might be. We certainly shouldn't assume that ours is the only possibility even within our own universe, let alone others. Your two answers reinforce the point I was making: every attack launched by theists upon atheism can be used by atheists against theism, and vice versa. It's all speculation, and that includes your conscious, first-cause, tough-love energy, for which there is not a smidgen of proof either.