Trilobite eyes (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:51 (4048 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Although the "panpsychist" alternative I have offered naturally demands a similar leap of faith, at least it has the merit (in my eyes) of NOT depending on chance or on an unknowable God.
 
DAVID: Your 'panpsychist alternative' has no basis as a proposal from what we know about the genome of life. The leap it requires is much more than faith. It would mean simplifying all of organic chemistry. The genome contains information which drives the chemicals of life to act like automatons, but the chemicals have no thoughts of their own as your term implies.-DAVID (re common descent): DNA is a common denominator, but I theorize that it contains pre-planned codes we haven't found yet.-In the context of the genome, you're happy to theorize about things not known. May I do the same? My alternative is based on many analogies, and one of them is the brain. My "panpsychist" alternative suggests that it is the intelligent energy within the brain that drives the chemicals. You believe in an afterlife, in which the mind survives the death of the physical body. What could this mind be, if not intelligent energy? By the same token, I'm suggesting that intelligent energy within the genome drives the chemicals. I must confess I'm now mystified, since you appeared to agree to this a week ago:-dhw: ...since God's purpose was "inventive life", he left the course of evolution in the "hands" of his intelligent invention ... apparently preprogrammed to experiment and take its own decisions (much like us humans, then!). [He] sat back watching while the intelligent genome produced its own inventions...-DAVID: A good synopsis of my view of evolution.-Have you changed your mind?-DAVID: When an organism becomes uncomfortable in its environment, by which I mean it has chemical signals of difficulty in pursuing living, the genome chemically recognizes this problem and begins to arrange for epigenetic adaptations, all following a built-in coded mechanism in the genome. -The essential driving force of evolution, I suggest, is not adaptation but innovation ... otherwise life would have stayed at bacterial level. This means invention on a grand scale, exactly as you indicated with your phrase "inventive life": new organs, new combinations, new organisms....These stem from the genome. A week ago you appeared to agree that "the intelligent genome" experiments and takes its own decisions, but now you say it's an automaton.
 
DAVID: This is Shapiro's point. It is also why he is still an atheist. He is still willing to accept this degree of complexity from chance mutational changes. And it is why the ID people love him, since they cannot accept the concept of chance for this much complexity. Nagel would jump at your 'third way' pan-psychism, but he knows it is not reasonable. The issue remains, unsolved for those who won't accept God, as the source of the information.-And the issue remains unsolved for those who won't accept chance (Shapiro is not the only believer) or any other unlikely hypothesis (there are many others, including my little offering). Out of interest, I googled Nagel and panpsychism, and found several entries. Here is a quote from- http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Panpsychism-"Thomas Nagel formulated a modern argument for panpsychism, claiming that mental processes cannot be reduced to physical matter and that if physical properties of matter are discovered by inference from other physical properties, then the same must be true for mental properties. So matter must have some "mental component"."-Of course there are many versions of panpsychism, which is why I put mine in inverted commas. I note that you have not yet commented on a remark by another of your recommended authors, Stephen L. Talbott, who having delved deep into the complexities of the genome, writes: "...you will not find me speaking of design, simply because [...] organisms cannot be understood as having been designed, machine-like, whether by an engineer-God or a Blind Watchmaker elevated to god-like status. If organisms participate in a higher life, it is a participation that works from within..." (see my post of 26 March at 14.46).-DAVID: I believe your problem is that you have just a vague knowledge of biochemistry, so you do not see the depth of the complexity. I think Shapiro is trapped because he is committed to methodologic reductionist naturalism in his role as a University professor.-Presumably, then, all biochemists believe in Intelligent Design by God. Any that say they don't are only pretending in order to protect their careers. Now there's a theory for you!