Intelligence (Origins)

by David Turell , Monday, March 04, 2013, 01:34 (4070 days ago) @ BBella

b bella: But, David, you are discounting the possibility of quantum interconnectedness, the true architect of all that is. Once any information is recorded by new innovative creations within matter, that information is always available to all other creations. -I am not forgetting the interconnectedness. But that does not mean that meaningful information is readily available or usable in biologic material. If that were the case evolution would not have been so sluggish and episodic. It would have flowed smoothly from single cell to us. Despite the interconnections, making a quantum computer is still a research struggle, but folks are getting there as Matt will tell you. Biologic matter is like no other matter. Biochemistry is extremely complex and the interconnectedness so far demonstrated involves non-living matter. On the other hand, consciousness is needed for quantum observation, yet evolution of the universe and of life proceeded before human consciousness appeared. 
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> > David: As far as evolution is concerned, liver-equivalents appear de novo in the Cambrian, suddenly, not bit by bit as cells would do negotiating among themselves. Your cell congress will not work. It does not answer the fossil record, as Gould noted. All new species appear de novo, fully formed and functional. There are no tiny steps in the fossil record. 
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> b bela: Then exactly what is the answer to how the above appeared "de novo", in your book? Intervention? -That is the debate. In the Cambrian a variety of organs that never before existed suddenly appeared and whole animals were now on Earth with legs or flippers, simple circulatory systems, kidney-like and liver-like organs, nerve cells with connections, complex eyes, etc . There are three choices: Darwin's chance production; some form of intervention, either with coding in the DNA from the beginning, or episodic intervention to change the DNA as time passed; or what dhw is proposing to get around the problems each of the other choices present. Nagel could not find an answer, nor can dhw, as they will not accept the probability (as I see it) of a greater power. The interconnectedness you have thought about is at the consciousness level (as I see it), which means it is at a very complex biologic level reequiring brains like ours. Evolution proceeded without human consciousness, therefore I think there is a universal consciousness using the network of, or providing the prior interconnectedness. I think the two, consciousness and interconnectedness, are two sides of the same coin.