Love me or else (Part Two) (Where is it now?)

by dhw, Tuesday, January 01, 2013, 19:52 (4132 days ago) @ dhw

Part Two-TONY: As for blaming man, please tell me which of the horrors of this world are not conclusively of man's doing? The ONLY thing you could come up with are likely disease or natural disasters, the former being certainly the fault of mankind and the latter generally being a result of people not being mindful of their environment.
 
Why "ONLY"? Of course I have come up with disease and natural disasters. Please tell me what scientific evidence you have that there were no plant or animal diseases prior to the arrival of man, and that humans have created every single disease-carrying germ, bug, bacterium, virus in the history of the planet. As for taking evasive action like your Sea Gypsies, would you exonerate a terrorist for destroying your house and belongings just because he gave you prior warning? You wrote: "If his [God's] sense of right and wrong were as messed up as mine we would all be screwed." Yes indeed. However, in fairness, I should add that I regard diseases and natural disasters as signs of the non-existence, absence or indifference rather than the loving presence of a god.-Dhw: Don't be frustrated! Just don't make and then try to defend authoritative remarks like "Love is not a feeling. It is an action...It does not have to come from within."-TONY: I can define love as action in great detail. Can you do the same with love as a feeling?-In your previous post you said you only meant that the Hebrew Language did not have a word for love as such. Of course actions are easier to define than emotions. Do you now agree or disagree that love is a feeling?-DHW: This pattern of suffering goes back to long before we arrived (I think our fellow animals can suffer too), and in terms of self-centredness (probably the main root of evil), that was already established when Nature introduced carnivores.-TONY: Ironically, at least according to the biblical record, initially animals were not carnivores, nor was that the intent when they were created. (Gen 1:30) So apparently, God agrees with your logic.-Good, now you and God agree that humans did not invent self-centredness, which I see as the main root of evil.-TONY: While I can certainly say that the majority of victims in the case of natural disasters are actually self-inflicted...-So the verdict on most people killed by a flood, tornado, earthquake, drought etc. is "certainly" that they committed suicide. I'd call such a verdict "messed up", wouldn't you?-TONY: ...and perhaps climatologist might agree that the vast majority of natural disaster(excluding volcanoes and earthquakes) are likely a direct result of mankind's actions regarding the environment, I do not know the geological or weather patterns of early earth. I can not say for certain what the conditions were.-And perhaps climatologists might disagree. But it's generous of you not to blame humans for volcanoes and earthquakes. Might I persuade you to include asteroids as well, for the sake of our late friends the dinosaurs? If you cannot say for certain what conditions were on early earth, should you not retain an open mind (as with diseases), instead of automatically assuming that humans are generally the culprits? -TONY: There is nothing wrong with loving your fellow man for their own sake. I have not meant to imply that you should love others for God's sake, only that you should show the same consideration to God.-Why "should" I love God for his own sake, when I don't even know if he exists or what he's like?
 
Dhw: I most certainly find no comfort in the thought that my actions are being judged by a power who can arbitrarily do what he likes with me...-TONY: Acts 24:15 ... This is actually the answer to your thought. There is no 'burning in hell' or 'lava bubble baths' for people that try to do the right thing but fall short either due to ignorance or simple human imperfection. -Paul HOPES there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. How does his hope invalidate Revelations 21; 8? You are cherry-picking again, though this particular cherry doesn't even come from the same tree!-TONY: Yes, the wage you pay for mistakes is death, and that is a price we all pay. Then you are offered an opportunity to learn how to do things correctly before being offered a choice to follow the rules or not. So, no, your wrong actions do not warrant being chucked in a lake of fire and brimstone, and fortunately, that is not what the book says would happen to you anyway.-So we all die because we're all sinners, but then you envisage an afterlife in which we get a second chance to guess what God wants, but if we still don't believe in him, or are fearful, or tell lies etc., see Revelations (21;8), as recommended by yourself.